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Thomas Edison's TDC - built one and it works !  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Aug 26th, 2012 10:56 AM
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Slider2732
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This is highly strange. I've previously built crystal radios and now have a couple of years of Tesla tower builds etc to study resonance, but this device escapes me in how it works.
Yet, work it apparently does !

A couple of guests were on the radio show Coast to Coast AM the other night, talking about the Scole Experiment and detailing a device that Edison created. Our own Vicki Talbott was on a related video found on YouTube. I'd never seen the documentary, nor the circuit, though had of course heard of Edison's interest in the paranormal.
The circuit itself, was communicated via an unexposed reel of film, sat in a sealed wooden box and with scientific people present !
Here are some links:
Coast to Coast AM program now uploaded kindly by a chap to YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl83ovR5iM0
Skip to 1:16:00 for the interview, there's another guy on before then.
Documentary about the Scole Experiment - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQvQ_WTtdHk
The circuit diagram and some background info - http://robinsphysicalphenomena.webs.com/thetdcdevice.htm


So I built one !
2x 1500 turn coils. The coils are made from unwound 56uH ferrite inductors, wound again with wire from a 12V relay. Spacing between appears to be important, or at least should be.
No germanium so a piece of fools gold was used.
Piece of plate copper under the rock.
Needle as point contact, pressure from copper rod it's glued to.
Output is to Audacity on the PC, via the mic port.

After some moving around of the needle, I received the words 'Hey Mark' from an American sounding woman!!!!!!
All is very hissy and I presumed that would be all that would come through.
The tip for this is to 'Normalize' a short recording and that brings the levels up to audible, but does increase the hiss. No filtering etc is used.

Here's a pic of the built device and the audio. Best to play it 3 or 4 times, because all your ears will hear the first time is hiss. After that, the voice is a Class B, within the hiss, if you see what I mean.



Attachment: TDC Hey Mark 24Aug2012.wav (Downloaded 1044 times)

Last edited on Aug 26th, 2012 11:03 AM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Aug 29th, 2012 02:19 AM
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Psychopompos
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Hi Slider.

Compliments for your device.For years,I have always desired to build one.I have the germanium chips, but the problems are the coils.The original device uses 5 Kohm coils,both wound in opposite directions.Difficult to wind and difficult to find!.If you are capable to make it for me with the original specs, in exchange,I will be happy to send you the original chips.

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 Posted: Aug 29th, 2012 10:53 AM
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ArizonaEvp
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Hi guys,


Nice effort Slider.

If you want to try other minerals with the cat whisker,  you could use things like boronite - zincite - hematite - galena - molybdenite and while not a natural mineral,  you could also experiment with a piece of pure silicon.

And.....for that out of this world experience....(pun) you could even use a small piece of meteorite.


One thing to keep in mind about this circuit as well as the raudive circuit and untapped crystal radios in general is that their designs are intended to be used with high impedance earphones / headphones.

If you want a cleaner / clearer sound you might want to think about using an impedance matching transformer like the Bogen T725.



Good Luck,
Ron

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 Posted: Aug 29th, 2012 11:36 AM
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Psychopompos
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Here the original device....

Attached Image (viewed 5942 times):

Schermata del 2012-08-29 14:28:19.png

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 Posted: Aug 30th, 2012 01:50 PM
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Slider2732
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Thanks Arizona and Psychopompos :)

Meteorite ?! :blink:
:biggrin:

Yes, 5K coils indeed. I mean, how on earth (or elsewhere) could a 5K coil be wound to the dimensions shown in the original device ?
Mine worked out at 167 Ohm's each, matched, using finer than hair 40 AWG from a relay.
One way, feasibly, would be to use a 5K pot and wind it up to nearly full, then use the coil to make up to the 5K.
However, I do think the highest ohm reading to be important..after all, that's the spec.

All of this has me further intrigued, because of some petrovoltaic experiments recently.
In this 2 minute video, I show that a piece of rock actually runs in an LED circuit better than a straight wire connection: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQTRQUuuutM
Simple circuit diagram is shown within the video.  


@Psychopompos - I'll gladly help. Although of zero income, I have a lot of spares etc around here and will further the development. There's no way on the planet I could afford some germanium chips at the moment, so would be doing us both a favour and, hopefully furthering this fascinating circuit for others.

@ArizonaEVP - the best earpiece i've used with crystal radio experiments is from an old telephone. It works well and is something to try on the original build, or a subsequent build. Where does one find the pink single earbud types these days ? I used to see them in the ears of the hard of hearing in the 1980's, but haven't seen any recently (in or out of old folks ears).

Last edited on Aug 30th, 2012 01:54 PM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Aug 30th, 2012 02:58 PM
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joecioppi
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ear pieces are available at:http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/radio.html

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 Posted: Aug 30th, 2012 09:51 PM
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Slider2732
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Thanks Joe..kinda spendy at $6.84, but at least they do have them :)

I'm growing piezo crystals at the moment, in the hopes of making an earphone in the future (Baking Soda/Cream of Tartar method). But, more realistically, am looking at piezo flat buzzers from greetings cards etc. Will build an enclosure and see how it goes.
Just tried out a crystal radio build and the original telephone handset speaker works fine, so am going to use that for the meantime.


Does anyone know what the original core for the coils was made of ?
I'm going to be using ferrite, larger than the original coils above for more turns...but just wondered if it was indeed ferrite on the original.

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 Posted: Aug 31st, 2012 02:32 AM
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Psychopompos
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Here the piece of germanium.I will cut it to correct shape.

Attached Image (viewed 5002 times):

Foto-0003.jpg

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 Posted: Aug 31st, 2012 12:01 PM
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Slider2732
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Great :)
By the way, Welcome to the group !

Some decent progress has been made toward understanding the high resistance coils and the 5000 ohm wording on the circuit diagram
Now, I believe they meant 5000 turns or 500 ohms.
I wound a coil last night (4 hours worth) of 5000 turns and it came out as 449 ohms, which is approximate to 500 ohms.

Here's a couple of pics, first of the ferrite chokes as they came off the back of part of a microwave oven and the second is the rewound finished coil.
Looking at the picture above of the original, i've tried to make it correct in size and look. The coil has thick connection ends, as per the picture and has black electrical tape over the windings.




(compare to original in Psychopompos's post above)


Time to find some relays and make the other coil !


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 Posted: Aug 31st, 2012 05:12 PM
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Slider2732
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:blink:

The second coil was prepared and made ready for winding:




After matching to the 449 ohms of the other one, both were attached to the test circuit:




I then set about tuning the coils. More a case of 'hmm maybe' for any perceived changes and adjusting the gap between them, plus moving the fools gold piece.
Recordings have been of around 8 seconds in Audacity and then just 'Normalized' to bring the level up.

Ya know those all too common EVP whisper voices ? quite clear and yet someone is whispering. Well the first possible EVP, after about 20 attempts at tuning is attached....someone appearing to say 'Welcome'...quite the fitting word.

THEN, well in the blurb for the original TDC experiments, there is talk of the voices coming through sounding robotic. That's what I appear to have captured next !!!
The voice seems to say 'Devil play' and is quite clear considering the hiss.
I'll post again and attach the 'Devil play' recording...it's worth listening to, in my opinion and I would welcome your thoughts.



Attachment: TDC new coils 3 'welcome'.mp3 (Downloaded 930 times)

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 Posted: Aug 31st, 2012 05:13 PM
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Slider2732
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Devil play ?


Attachment: TDC new coils 5 'Devil Play' - ROBOTIC.mp3 (Downloaded 1075 times)

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 Posted: Sep 1st, 2012 06:34 AM
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ArizonaEvp
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Slider2732 wrote: Thanks Joe..kinda spendy at $6.84, but at least they do have them :)

I'm growing piezo crystals at the moment, in the hopes of making an earphone in the future (Baking Soda/Cream of Tartar method). But, more realistically, am looking at piezo flat buzzers from greetings cards etc. Will build an enclosure and see how it goes.
Just tried out a crystal radio build and the original telephone handset speaker works fine, so am going to use that for the meantime.


Does anyone know what the original core for the coils was made of ?
I'm going to be using ferrite, larger than the original coils above for more turns...but just wondered if it was indeed ferrite on the original.


Hi Slider,


The earpiece from an old telephone will work just fine.

Yes....you can use meteorite for a detector.  Pyrite is metallic and so is galena.  Remember those "foxhole" crystal sets.  They used a razor blade and pencil lead for their cat whisker.

I looked around the net and didn't find any info on they made their coils.  I suppose one could always contact them through their website.



Regards,
Ron

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 Posted: Sep 2nd, 2012 03:30 PM
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Slider2732
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Thanks Ron,
Is there any use in taking a magnet up to a river or stream ? Am just wondering what kind of rocks might be within Oklahoma to try out.


Psychopompos wrote in a PM that the coils seem to be aircore and may relate to scalar reception.
I'm going to wind some aircore versions and compare.

At the moment, it seems from the tests that the higher the coil resistance, the louder and clearer the received possible EVP's. Using ferrite may act as a quench, decreasing the Q.
Or in other words, giving with one hand and taking back with the other.

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 Posted: Sep 2nd, 2012 05:19 PM
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ArizonaEvp
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Slider2732 wrote: Thanks Ron,
Is there any use in taking a magnet up to a river or stream ? Am just wondering what kind of rocks might be within Oklahoma to try out.


Psychopompos wrote in a PM that the coils seem to be aircore and may relate to scalar reception.
I'm going to wind some aircore versions and compare.

At the moment, it seems from the tests that the higher the coil resistance, the louder and clearer the received possible EVP's. Using ferrite may act as a quench, decreasing the Q.
Or in other words, giving with one hand and taking back with the other.



If you take a magnet you might find a piece of iron or iron filings.

Depending on where in OK you live,  There is the recent ghost town at  Picher in Ottowa County.  It was a big mining operation for zinc and lead ore....both of which would work as a crystal detector.

You could also do a search for Ok rocks and minerals and find a rockhounding mineral club nearby your location.  They would be able to point you in the right direction.

Here is a link to the Picher ghost town:


http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/ok/picher.html



And the link for listings for Oklahoma:


http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/ok/ok.html



This site also has listings of ghost towns throughout the US and Canada:


http://www.ghosttowns.com/ghosttownsusa.html



Happy Hunting,
Ron

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 Posted: Sep 2nd, 2012 06:53 PM
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Slider2732
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Thanks again Ron.
I meant to type multimeter for continuity, but the fingers typed magnet while I was thinking of what else to take along !

Yeah, we moved here (near Tulsa) in July 2008. While driving through Picher we saw what was left of the gas station and other places in the town. My wife said of the tornado and the damage was unfortunately clearly evident.

I didn't know about the varied other metals/ores for detection...fascinating :) 

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 Posted: Sep 3rd, 2012 04:12 AM
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Psychopompos
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Slider,
Dont forget to experiment with carbides, as mentioned by the Scole group....

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 Posted: Nov 27th, 2013 10:21 PM
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Hi guys.. I am new here. I was searching the internet for the TCD device and stumbled on this site.
I am interested in building this... can you help me? Once I get started I will be okay on my own.. but I dont understand the coils. I need to find a ferrite core and what type and gage of wire? IS it magnetic wire? And How do you keep track of the winding... it would be so easy to lose count. Thanks

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 Posted: Nov 28th, 2013 12:27 AM
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Slider2732
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Hey, welcome oldfowler :)

How strange to see your post, unless you are the same chap who contacted me today on YouTube about this ?
I also found the coils today while moving some parts and was reminded of the experiments..that was before getting the YouTube message.

Yes, i'll certainly help...it's a fascinating device and of great interest if you follow the work of classic scientists. Simply to make something that appears to be from the time period of Edisons life.
I'd recommend a study of crystal radios, reading and building, to familiarise with the basic operation of such a circuit. Once you get a crystal radio going, the building of this device becomes more familiar and logical.
The principle seems to be two coils with a slight difference between them of received signal (spirit voice), then a diode to give the sound output.
Experimenting is key and to not follow everything to the letter.  A 'feel' for what is going on is needed, such as noting differences when coils are spaced to different distances. I'm sure there are improvements that can be made to the circuit. For one thing, an audio amplifier on the output, for use as a hand held unit and real time EVP reception.


For ferrite cores, do you have an old PC power supply or old computer that you could take apart ? If not, try advertising on your local Freecycle group for one.
Inside the power supply you'll find 2 or 3  thin ferrite pieces that are wrapped with about half a dozen turns of thick gauge wire. The ferrite pieces look somewhat like thick pencil graphite.  The wire on those is normally glued in place, but the glue bond can be broken by twisting the wire.
 
If you have an old tube PC monitor then you have a treasure trove of spares for projects like this. Including a relay. Relay wire is hair thin and breaks easily, but is ideal for this project. The gauge is approx 40 AWG. Any thicker and the needed 1500 or so turns will produce a coil whose outer turns will have no ferrite influence. Imagine the ferrite sets up a bubble around itself and the wire turns go within that bubble...you can see that having wire that extends past such a bubble wouldn't help and in fact can degrade the coil performance.
The wire is called magnet wire, but isn't magnetic. Simply copper wire with a coating on it to stop it shorting out on itself with the next turn of wire over the top.


Build one in 20 minutes !
One quick method of emulating this circuit is to use 2x 12V relay and a germanium diode.
The relays can stay intact, just use a multimeter to find the 2 pins with high resistance as that will be the coil inside. Then connect the diode and output via an audio jack to a powered PC speaker.
Space the relays such that you receive favourable results :)


Last edited on Nov 28th, 2013 12:32 AM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Nov 28th, 2013 01:08 AM
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Keith Clark
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Great thread here guys, I am watching with interest....
Keith

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 Posted: Nov 28th, 2013 03:19 PM
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sparks
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Can you guys still access the Coast to Coast AM program mentioned on YouTube? ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl83ovR5iM0
Doesnt seem to be available anymore, to me here down under.
If its still there, can someone plse download the flv so I can grab that please?
Thanks,
JEFF

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 Posted: Nov 28th, 2013 04:33 PM
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Slider2732
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Thanks Keith, hopefully we can get more experimenters building perhaps the relay version...i'll be building it myself and will report back on tests.
Just seemed logical for 2 ready made high ohm coils.


Hey sparks...quite right, seems that the channel may have disappeared.
Hmm, ok, will have a hunt for that as quite often several people will upload he same shows. Will update this post if I find it :)
Have found this so far, might be a different film about the experiments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qSEi_sfaSU&list=PLRBpHzctLpBb_3bWLg5nWc9H1m1fcdgS9

Last edited on Nov 28th, 2013 04:40 PM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Nov 28th, 2013 04:57 PM
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sparks
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I found a show on the coast to coast website ...
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2012/08/23
Probably not the one mentioned above.
Cant listen or download it as Im not a member. Can anyone download the mp3's?
I presume the ones of interest are the last two, based on the show's session description.

Last edited on Nov 28th, 2013 04:58 PM by sparks

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 Posted: Nov 28th, 2013 06:15 PM
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Slider2732
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Unfortunately not a 'Coast Insider' myself either.
Hmm, well this guy certainly has a lot of Coast shows: http://www.youtube.com/user/C2CAMVAULT/videos
They seem to be grouped in sections of interest. Might be worth a look.

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 Posted: Nov 28th, 2013 06:31 PM
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Yes, I'll have a look. Thanks.
Thinking of the scole device reminds me of the coal dust evp detector article that I discovered on the german VTF site. If its of any interest, I posted a rough translation of the article within this post ..
http://www.itcbridge.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=1543&forum_id=42

JEFF

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 Posted: Dec 2nd, 2013 01:36 PM
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This is a fascinating technical thread – the sort of nuts-and-bolts research which many actually lead to something tangible and reproducible.

But can we actually determine some parameters and clear away some confusion – at least in my head?


1) We need some confirmed diagrams by Edison’s hand of how this device was constructed. Are there any?

2) From the data that is available (are the Scole film images really all there are?), where did the 1500-turn, 5k ohm coils information come from? The questions about the core material are valid too. What we also need to know is the inductance of the coils. Additionally, is the 5k ohm the inductive reactance, and if so at what frequency, or just the DC resistance?

3) If these coils are tuned, at what frequency are they being tuned to?

4) What is the significance of the germanium blocks? If detection of some ‘ethereal’ signal is required, why not use a normal, low-noise, stable, germanium diode? They may not have been around in Edison’s time, but they were a breakthrough when put into production, far surpassing all the various cat’s whisker variants. They were also used in the Raudive Diode device.

5) Is this going to be another device that will only work if the operators have medium ship abilities?

6) It is “widely known” that Edison attempted communication with the dead. Do we have any documented evidence of this? Are there any drawings by him of these devices, and detailed notes of his results? It would be very strange if he did not leave any record of this particular research, he was painstaking about documenting and patenting his inventions. He was also a master at getting publicity for his devices, but there’s no evidence he had the equivalent of a press conference for this particular invention, which would surely have been hailed as one of his most significant discoveries. Unfortunately, there is some speculation (confirmed by his son Charles) that it was all a hoax to annoy some magazine reporter...

Jan

(residing in an unusually dull Inverness!)

Last edited on Dec 2nd, 2013 03:31 PM by Jan

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 Posted: Dec 2nd, 2013 03:28 PM
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Slider2732
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Hi Jan,

Your views are completely valid and reasonable.
Real, solid, good facts are needed and no snake oil.
Perhaps Edison never did conduct any experiments of the type, let alone build and test this device.

I built mine some while ago, but do have similar questions...something i've not really gone back to, with other builds and commitments coming along.
At the time, I watched the Scole Experiments, then read a few posts on different forums and 'had at it'.
To me, it's a very high impedance crystal radio...but that may be all we need for spirit contact.

The info I used, including circuit diagram, coil specs etc is here:
http://robinsphysicalphenomena.webs.com/thetdcdevice.htm
I'm not sure it's exactly the same site, but is the same information.



Personally, I have 3 oscilloscopes, all of which have different troubles at the moment, else i'd get some decent screenshots of traces during operating (need a a scope to fix and calibrate them !).
The 5K is the coil resistance.
Germanium of any type will work, the blocks are more likely through the lack of glass encapsuled 1N34A's at the time.
A psychic may or may not be needed...I would say not - but a good ear for possible EVP's recorded and correctly identified is. Again though, what use in a Class C ? if it has merit they will be Class A sometimes.
A friend recently informed me that Edison was jealous of Tesla's apparent other worldly communications and wanted to '1 up' him. I can imagine that scenario, but it doesn't make it true.

Noone really knows and that's the beauty of this. To be pioneering and sift the wheat from the chaff. To get it all nailed down, figuratively and literally.
Perhaps Edison's method is sound, but his build is a bit twonky for the 21st Century.
Questions for improvements may include whether high Henry axial inductors would work ?
Would a good outside Ground improve results ?
Would a Faraday cage actually help ?
Could a device be built on a circuitboard, it's output connected to a 386 chip audio amp and be carried around like a Frank's box ?

Let's find out :)


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 Posted: Dec 4th, 2013 05:51 AM
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Jan
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Yes, the Scole Experiments were fascinating, and I don't really understand why the technical experiments didn't continue, particularly as they claimed such a revelation/invention/discovery as the germanium-coil device.

And why not build on that, to get better and better information to improve communication? I mean, is that device the total of what they could achieve? Remarkable in itself if it did what was claimed, but why stop there?

I'm also confused about the reference to germanium under slight pressure from a metal point. That IS a semiconductor diode (used as a detector of radio signals) when just the right amount of pressure is found. I see you used a piece of fools gold, but there's mention of carbides, coal and other minerals used as semiconductors. As you will know, these can all be used a crude semiconductors.

The Scole site (http://www.thescoleexperiment.com/s_files_14.htm) states that the germanium is not acting as a radio receiver and: "...some of the communicators could only speak to us through the germanium receptor.." but talks of instability and a "cut-off point" in the germanium; this is all classic behaviour of semiconductors and radio signals.

Yet the group says communications are not some sort of radio signals, but that the germanium is acting as "a point of entry".

It is a great shame Professor Arthur Ellison is no longer with us. It would be invaluable to get these points clarified. The technical information I have read in the Scole website is muddled, not the work of a physics professor.

Having just written all that, I did a bit of reverse image searching on the internet of the Scole "Psychic Photographs". The pictures of blobs could be anything, including of paranormal origin, but why include a picture of St Paul's cathedral "taken in total darkness" when it turns out to be an obscure but known photo taken in London during the blitz...?

Jan

Thanks for the link to the Scole video. Very interesting, but it begs more questions than it answers...

Last edited on Dec 4th, 2013 07:31 AM by Jan

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 Posted: Dec 4th, 2013 09:45 AM
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Slider2732
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Post mucked up...rewriting

Last edited on Dec 4th, 2013 09:56 AM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Dec 4th, 2013 10:02 AM
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Slider2732
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Been thinking about this...and your recent questions bolster the thoughts, or should I say, have helped to derive a method for furtherings. Hopefully some teamwork here is the route :)
I'd enjoy your thoughts on the following Jan, as well as anyone elses viewpoints for the route.

Recently, i've been building 'Indoor Solar Radios'.  A part of my 'Power Lamp' project. The basics are that by using a regular table lamp which would be running anyway in a room in the evenings, small drain devices can be powered.
Solar cells pick up the light, without impacting the lamp output.
The power lamp method is to be forwarded, by the fitting of panels inside the shade area. Many such lamps having black lampshades, completely wasting a potential form of 'free'energy (in my opinion).
So...without having ever heard of such a system, it's now open sourced because of this post and by doing so may help us to power a crystal radio TDC type system, that can be tailored to our Edison device needs.
And, indeed, power other devices which may suffer from battery drain during 'ghost hunts'.
Alternatively, a 1.5V battery could be used...of course :)

Nearly every ITC device includes a gap somewhere in the circuit. Some way for a circuit to accept and include spirit communications. Even a digital recorder is likely to have glass diodes within (1N4148 types in the signal routing), enabling a pathway for variable radio/light spectrum energies as well as microphone audio.
An ability for something to be variable, thus bringing the ability for spirit voice capture, in my opinion. In the TDC's case, the spacing between 2 coils, but the solar cell light pickup could also be included in thoughts.
Pic here of 5 of my radios.


The radios only need about 1.5V @ 1mA, easily furnished by scrap solar cells from garden lights etc. Typically 3 such cells will allow easy placement near a 13W table lamp. Monocrystalline panel bits are also shown and are effective...any solar cell type can be used.
Beginning with a proven radio reception method, we can adhere to the TDC specification, yet explore coil designs and truly portable usable devices, with no reliance on batteries.
It would remove the need to strongly boost terribly weak signals (my previous EVP's in this thread included).
Earphones may be regular iPod types, as well as crystal radio or piezo types.
Such a system can be trialled outdoors in daylight as well as indoors with sufficient ambient light.
The resulting devices can also be flashlight/torch powered for investigative 'ghost hunting' purposes. No external amplification need be necessary, if a sensitive headphone is used (can still be routed to an EVP recorder).

The radio circuit is based on the TA7642, a 3 pin transistor looking chip intended for radio circuits. Similar devices include the MK484, which was popular a couple of decades back. I bought 20 for $5 or similar on Ebay a couple of months ago. The rest of the small number of components were either self made (radio coils) or salvaged from scrap TV's etc. So what i've done, is to create crystal radios in form and function, without an antenna or Ground wire.
Reception and clarity/purity is on a par with a good crystal set (I live in Oklahoma and can receive as far as Chicago, Colorado, Tennessee and New Orleans),
Here's the circuit that the ones in the pic are based on:  http://www.b-kainka.de/Weblog/TA7642.jpg
From which we can replace the standard radio coil with the TDC coils :)
In practice, the 350uH coil spec is very flexible. As seen above, i've used toilet rolls, solder tubes and other forms to wind various density coils on. Some use ferrite some don't.

But -
What of the apparently important germanium 'portal' ?
And here is where we might get clever ;)
A while back, I developed a circuit for testing the qualities of rocks within a circuit. An oddball idea, needing a practical use...perhaps we now have that use.
Here's the YouTube vid, where that circuit was water powered:
EDIT - YouTube embedding not working for some reason :blushing: ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQTRQUuuutM
 
What i'm saying, is that we can include the germanium as a central part of the circuit, run it from a very low input power source and perhaps further the Edison device.

Last edited on Dec 4th, 2013 10:19 AM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Dec 4th, 2013 12:22 PM
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sparks
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Does anyone know if sound clips are available of the scole device in action?

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 Posted: Dec 4th, 2013 02:35 PM
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Jan
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Youtube 'Scole experiment' brings up documentaries. The one posted by Slider here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQvQ_WTtdHk has what they claim are real recordings, though it was vague saying how some of them were made.

The voices from the radio of the Italian guy were deeply unimpressive to me, though nothing to do with the Scole work.

One claim was that the radio was off and the valves/tubes removed. But it looked all lit up and fully working to me. I WISH had been there to check! The radio voices sounded like recordings on a tape recorder with someone slowing down the spools. It didn't look like any of the 'investigators' were technical enough to tell the difference between a light bulb and an onion!

The Scole stuff was fascinating, but again I would like to have been there. But we've all seen magic tricks that appear to be... magic. So even if I'd witnessed the stuff before my eyes that's no guarantee it wasn't a trick.

Jan

Last edited on Dec 4th, 2013 02:37 PM by Jan

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 Posted: Dec 5th, 2013 10:23 AM
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Slider2732
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Which reminds of Clarke's 3rd Law:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/776.html

I'd think that removing the tubes from such a radio wouldn't just stop signals coming through..they are used in the amplification of any signal and then the output of that signal. It would be akin to putting a cardboard box in front of everyone and still be 'tuning in' the voices. 
Now, if the cardboard box lit up, that would be cool :)

It's interesting to be a sceptical type regarding the Scole Experiment. Every bit of nonsense that we may debunk from experience and therefore throw out is present.
Yet, what of my own successes ? what of paranormal experiences throughout life, or ITC experiments that have displayed anomalies.


As a progress report:
I've altered one of the above radios (the one with the wire spool as the coil form) and tested it yesterday evening. The original black coils from the start of the thread are now in place.
Nothing happened with table lamp power, but the idea was to try a confirmation with sunlight today. Annnd guess the weather today lol, including icy rain. In summer, such a circuit runs fine indoors with nothing but ambient daylight in a well lit room.
However, i'm looking now for the germanium pieces I have stored away somewhere, to finish the idea. In lieu of which, i'll put a germanium diode in parallel and then in series with the coils.
As a straight test of regular reception it's a good thing that all that came through was regular hiss, considering the usual reception of the 50000W KRMG station out of nearby Tulsa !


Last edited on Dec 5th, 2013 10:25 AM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Dec 5th, 2013 04:34 PM
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lance
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Hi All...
  I just like to point out that the experiment when the valves were taken out of the radio etc happened before the documentary was made, I feel the documentary has been edited in a way to make it look like they were there at the time...
Thanks Lance.



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 Posted: Dec 6th, 2013 05:40 AM
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Itsu
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Hi slider,

nice to see you here.

Interesting stuff, but concerning your scole setup, should your germanium (or fools gold) detector not be inbetween the 2 coils which are in bucking mode (see the picture of the real device in post #4)?

Regards itsu

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 Posted: Dec 7th, 2013 12:51 AM
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Slider2732
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Cheers for the info Lance :)

Hey Itsu - great to see you here, I had no idea you were a member ! :biggrin:
Just to note for our usual contact, my prolapsed disc (back injury) has gone nuts and i've been out of regular circuit building action for a few weeks now.
Indeed, i'll try it across the coils, separating them. Haven't done anything extra in the last couple of days to report.

Last edited on Dec 7th, 2013 12:54 AM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Dec 7th, 2013 02:48 AM
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Itsu
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Slider2732 wrote:
Cheers for the info Lance :)

Hey Itsu - great to see you here, I had no idea you were a member ! :biggrin:
Just to note for our usual contact, my prolapsed disc (back injury) has gone nuts and i've been out of regular circuit building action for a few weeks now.
Indeed, i'll try it across the coils, separating them. Haven't done anything extra in the last couple of days to report.



Hi Slider,

i joined up here just to respond to you.
I hope that disc will behave itselve quickly as i know what a pain in the bud it can giv.
I will try to setup a similar thing, but am puzzeled by the 5KOhm coils too.

Regards Itsu

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 Posted: Dec 7th, 2013 01:08 PM
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sparks
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Hey Guys,
Ive got a couple of 5k coils here (and 10k ones). They actually measure that value of resistance each. Theyre the coils from British type 3000 BPO relays, that operated on 50v. Quite large. Got them on ebay for another use some time ago. The contact assembly can be detached from the coil.
JEFF

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 Posted: Dec 7th, 2013 03:39 PM
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Slider2732
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Well I must say, i'm delighted by the intrigue.
Especially in seeing Itsu here, whom I consider to be one of the finest builders and researchers of energy related projects.
And it's all a bit different ! Instead of looking at Wattage and calculating efficiency figures, all we need are anomalous vocal recordings to analyze.

Hopefully i'll be able to contribute more and quickly. Putting a folded pillow under the back (L2 position) is helping for sleep :)

@Sparks
As in British Telecom ?
I just found the spec/datasheet, maybe useful if you don't have it: http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repository/po_docs/yellow_book_complete.pdf
1.9.2 mentions their characteristics and properties for speech. Quite fascinating to read about the nickel iron sleeves over the core - which could have wider relevance for this project ! 
For other relay types, perhaps salvaged from CRT monitors etc, one experiment may be to grind up an old radio ferrite loopstick and pour the shavings into the relay middle.

Last edited on Dec 7th, 2013 03:40 PM by Slider2732

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 Posted: Dec 7th, 2013 09:17 PM
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sparks
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Hi Slider, yes, British telecom. I worked in airport comms systems in the 70's, and there were racks of these used for audio network switching. Very reliable. I measured the 5k coil at 19 Henries inductance. Taking a wild stab at the self capacitance, I estimate the coil's self resonance would be about 2kHz, so with the germanium detector, would make it a very sensitive receiver at VLF frequencies - IF we were assuming that conventional reception is how this operates, which is unlikely.
Thanks for the datasheet. I havent seen one of these since those old days. 
Heres a photo of the coil. This one has 2 windings.
JEFF
 

Attached Image (viewed 4137 times):

IMG_2834.JPG

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 Posted: Dec 8th, 2013 04:28 AM
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Itsu
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Slider,

having some sleep is good as it relaxes the body and muscles around the disc.

Sparks,

nice relays, so they do exist out there.
Have to search around, as i do not see how i could make them (5K Ohm coils) myselve.

Regards itsu

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