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Thomas Edison's TDC - built one and it works !

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Posted: Jan 25th, 2017 03:22 PM

Slider2732
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Very kind, but I only know what's been typed up here.
This sort of project is a good starter for homemade devices and can teach a lot about what to expect, how to discern noise from an actual signal.
Anything I might explain would only be based on experiments from years ago now and really, it's much better to build one for the self and make changes as it's being used...everything is only guesswork and the experimenter himself is often the factor of whether success is achieved. Plus, what that success is, or what results are expected are also based around the experimenter.

A couple of high ohm coils and a germanium diode are about all it is. How you hook them up or interact with the resulting device is as open as the ones I made that few years back.
The summary being, that such devices are always part material, part ethereal. In the case of this one there is a lot of gap setting and adjustment based on a highly unscientific 'feel' for changes. Those changes are seemingly directly linked to the experimenter.

Posted: Jan 25th, 2017 09:00 PM

Valheol
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For anyone who is intimidated by making their own coil:

Your standard single coil guitar pickup is rated at 6-8000 ohms and costs around 10$ online. It's already wound for you on a bobbin and after removing the screws, pegs and magnets, you have exactly what you need.

As a bonus, humbucker pickups come with dual coils arranged in anti parallel configuration already! 😃

Last edited on Jan 25th, 2017 09:08 PM by Valheol

Posted: Jan 26th, 2017 03:24 AM

Slider2732
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That's very cool info !
I wonder if anyone has put a diode between them and played 'Stairway to heaven' :biggrin:

:biggrin:

Posted: Jan 27th, 2017 12:30 PM

flybd5
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I understand what you did here but what gauge wire did you use to make these coils? Still used 40AWG?

Juan

Slider2732 wrote:
Great

By the way, Welcome to the group !

Some decent progress has been made toward understanding the high resistance coils and the 5000 ohm wording on the circuit diagram
Now, I believe they meant 5000 turns or 500 ohms.
I wound a coil last night (4 hours worth) of 5000 turns and it came out as 449 ohms, which is approximate to 500 ohms.

Here's a couple of pics, first of the ferrite chokes as they came off the back of part of a microwave oven and the second is the rewound finished coil.
Looking at the picture above of the original, i've tried to make it correct in size and look. The coil has thick connection ends, as per the picture and has black electrical tape over the windings.

(compare to original in Psychopompos's post above)

Time to find some relays and make the other coil !

Posted: Jan 27th, 2017 03:07 PM

Slider2732
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Hi Juan,

The wire gauge of 12V automotive relays is approx 40AWG yep.
You might well get some results by simply wiring 2 relays together !

On the bottom of such relays, there are normally 2 pins on one end and 4 on the other. The 2 pins are the coil, the 4 are the contacts that open and close.
So the method would be to wire the 2 pins oppositely of each other.
The cases do come away quite readily, although normally in many pieces. It's a thin brittle plastic. Pliers can be used to crack the plastic (at the 4 pin contacts end) then the plastic will crack apart.

Posted: Jan 27th, 2017 03:16 PM

flybd5
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Ok. 40AWG wire on a 25mm x 8mm bobbin will give you exactly 501 ohms with 5000 turns. I too was confused with the 5,000 ohm spec, since there was no way you could make that even with 43AWG wire in such a small bobbin.

Slider2732 wrote:
Hi Juan,

The wire gauge of 12V automotive relays is approx 40AWG yep.
You might well get some results by simply wiring 2 relays together !

On the bottom of such relays, there are normally 2 pins on one end and 4 on the other. The 2 pins are the coil, the 4 are the contacts that open and close.
So the method would be to wire the 2 pins oppositely of each other.
The cases do come away quite readily, although normally in many pieces. It's a thin brittle plastic. Pliers can be used to crack the plastic (at the 4 pin contacts end) then the plastic will crack apart.

Posted: Jan 27th, 2017 03:21 PM

flybd5
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BTW, a lot of the interpretations of the audio are what I would describe as excessively optimistic. Most of them sound like someone was picking up some AM station, and not very well.

Posted: Jan 27th, 2017 07:16 PM

flybd5
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I was also wondering... since no electricity will be running through the coils, does the wire need to be insulated? I wonder if Edison's design called for plain copper wire...

Posted: Jan 28th, 2017 02:39 AM

Slider2732
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Most of EVP study is excessively optimistic lol
But when the Class A's arrive, it makes the journey worth it huh

Thanks for verifying the 500ohm thing.

Uninsulated would short of course, but back in the day I presume he may have used cotton covered. Certainly shielded wire similar to WiFi wire would be no good. The enamel wire is a good compromise for performance.
Maybe Edison was thinking of radio in the design...it may have morphed into something powerful if Tesla had designed it. Saying that, how about Tesla's spirit radio.

With Edison and Tesla not getting along, combine the two designs and watch the sparks fly

Last edited on Jan 28th, 2017 02:42 AM by Slider2732

Posted: Jan 28th, 2017 09:02 AM

flybd5
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I'm not sure anything would short with bare wire, because no power is running through it. Remember, guitar pickup coils are made of bare wire, not insulated or enameled. This is not a transformer or relay coil where electricity runs through it to create a magnetic field, it's just a coil to enhance reception with the germanium as a semiconductor material.

I don't think Tesla has a design that could match this. If he did, he would have probably barged in on Edison during the Scole sessions.

Juan

Slider2732 wrote:
Most of EVP study is excessively optimistic lol
But when the Class A's arrive, it makes the journey worth it huh

Thanks for verifying the 500ohm thing.

Uninsulated would short of course, but back in the day I presume he may have used cotton covered. Certainly shielded wire similar to WiFi wire would be no good. The enamel wire is a good compromise for performance.
Maybe Edison was thinking of radio in the design...it may have morphed into something powerful if Tesla had designed it. Saying that, how about Tesla's spirit radio.

With Edison and Tesla not getting along, combine the two designs and watch the sparks fly

Posted: Jan 28th, 2017 08:40 PM

Valheol
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flybd5 wrote:
Remember, guitar pickup coils are made of bare wire, not insulated or enameled.

That is incorrect. Guitar coils are wound with 42AWG enameled copper wire.

Posted: Jan 28th, 2017 08:50 PM

flybd5
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I stand corrected.

Valheol wrote:
flybd5 wrote:
Remember, guitar pickup coils are made of bare wire, not insulated or enameled.

That is incorrect. Guitar coils are wound with 42AWG enameled copper wire.

Posted: Jan 28th, 2017 09:08 PM

flybd5
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Hmm. I just looked again at the section of the Scole Experiment book that talks about the receptor. There is no mention of the number of turns or the resistance. The writing on the film just says B and C are coils of high resistance.

Posted: Jan 29th, 2017 09:28 AM

flybd5
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But no mention of materials or other specs. It's also wrong. You can't get 5000 ohms out of a coil that small, even with the smallest available wire. To get 5,000 ohms with 43AWG enameled wire would take a coil with 30,000 turns of wire 1,477 meters long.

Where are the recordings? Have they ever made them available for scrutiny?

Last edited on Jan 29th, 2017 09:44 AM by flybd5

Posted: Jan 29th, 2017 09:48 AM

flybd5
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I've looked everywhere for the recordings. They are not available anywhere on the Internet, to my knowledge. I've seen the photo. It doesn't really answer any questions for me. I will try to build this device, and have already ordered the final component (the wire), but it bothers me that they complain about the skepticism but don't lift a finger to provide the simple evidence that would dispel doubts. Without that, the whole story fails Ockham's Razor and tends to peg my BS-o-Meter.

Posted: Jan 29th, 2017 01:51 PM

Valheol
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There were recordings. If you watch the scole experiment documentary, the recordings are included in the film. That is actually how I found out about the Scole experiments.

Last edited on Jan 29th, 2017 01:52 PM by Valheol

Posted: Jan 29th, 2017 02:52 PM

flybd5
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There was a film. If the recordings exist, why only in the film? Sorry, but no, doesn't pass the smell test.

Posted: Aug 9th, 2017 06:25 PM

JKeen
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I just finished mine recently. I tried to build it as true to the original as possible. I've been experimenting with it, and its very interesting. I get a strange static which has that freight train and wave crashing quality that's noted in the scole experiment book and web resources I've read. I've gotten what I believe are evps from it but haven't confirmed them through noise filter software. So far, they aren't evps that are much different from whats to be expected from typical audio equipment.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

I also included an audio file of what it sounds like when being turned on. The loud crashes are what occurs when the pressure screw tightens into the germanium.

Attached Image (viewed 1602 times):

Last edited on Aug 9th, 2017 07:58 PM by JKeen

Posted: Aug 9th, 2017 07:18 PM

JKeen
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flybd5 wrote: But no mention of materials or other specs. It's also wrong. You can't get 5000 ohms out of a coil that small, even with the smallest available wire. To get 5,000 ohms with 43AWG enameled wire would take a coil with 30,000 turns of wire 1,477 meters long.

Where are the recordings? Have they ever made them available for scrutinyI used a sewing kit spool with an inner diameter of 11mm with 46 awg wire. According to a coil wrapping calculator designed for e-cigarette users (link is below), it should theoretically take 10,656 windings. For me it varied from 9000 to over 15,000 windings to get a target resistance of 5000 ohms. I measured the turns using a calculator that was modified with a reed (magnetic) switch. I'm guessing the quality controls on such a fine wire are hard to maintain in manufacture. It was so fickle, that I gave up on winding in one attempt because I was at 15,000 winds, and theresistence was only at 3.5k-ohms.

As for the spools that finally made it into the device, one came out to about 4.7 K-ohms and the other at 5.3. They both neatly fit into the .75x1.25x2.75 inch dimensions that I and Scole group respectively constructed our acrylic containers with. I had to burnish away the coating on the magnet wire in segments to measure the resistance as I wound it. It was very cumbersome, and I had about 20 failed attempts. Sometimes the the wire would break as I wound it. Sometimes it would get caught between the chuck of my fiscar hand drill and the spool. I completed good 5000 ohm coils at times, only for it to be botched up somehow after soldering up the leads to the washers that endcap the spool. It was such a headache.

If I attempt this again, I will probably use a slightly thicker gauge like 43 awg, since its commonly used in guitar pickup construction. The actual number of windings will more likely match the calculations, since there's more quality control exercised over it. It probably won't snap as much when I'm winding it, either, because its thicker. According to the calculator, an 11mm spool will take about 21,000 windings. That really doesn't tell me whether it will fit or not though.I have to calculate the volume that this much 43 awg wire occupies. Even if its over the capacity of the spool, you can bulge the center a little bit as you wind it to fit more. I might try 44 or 45 awg as well.

Coil Calculation Website

Last edited on Aug 9th, 2017 07:33 PM by JKeen

Posted: Aug 9th, 2017 08:03 PM

JKeen
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Here's what it sounds like when being powered on. The loud thumps occur when the pressure screw is turned into the germanium. The TDC was patched into the mic jack of my SONY IC recorder fr this sample.

Attachment: 120620_004.MP3 (Downloaded 1110 times)

Last edited on Aug 9th, 2017 08:07 PM by JKeen

Posted: Aug 9th, 2017 08:21 PM

JKeen
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flybd5 wrote: I've looked everywhere for the recordings. They are not available anywhere on the Internet, to my knowledge. I've seen the photo. It doesn't really answer any questions for me. I will try to build this device, and have already ordered the final component (the wire), but it bothers me that they complain about the skepticism but don't lift a finger to provide the simple evidence that would dispel doubts. Without that, the whole story fails Ockham's Razor and tends to peg my BS-o-Meter.

Montague Keen was amajor correspondent for Scole. His website contains a page with several recordings from seances. Some might be from the scole sessions. Some may be channelings from mediums, some evp, some trans dimensional communications. I'm not exactly sure. Here's the link.

Montague Keen website audio

Last edited on Aug 11th, 2017 06:28 AM by JKeen

Posted: Aug 16th, 2017 10:47 AM

Jan
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Has anyone got any recordings yet they have successfully made?

Have there been any circuit improvements? The biased germanium diode between opposing magnets looks like a good idea, and maybe I've missed it, but where did the idea come from? Did it eventually yield results?

Thanks.

Jan

Posted: Aug 16th, 2017 08:07 PM

Keith Clark
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I believe original idea came from Scole Experiments, if I am not mistaken.

Posted: Apr 28th, 2018 10:52 AM

ghost-station
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I wanted to share some pictures and informations about my newest project.

It is the germanium receptor V2.0. The front panel was made of black anodised aluminum, and the engravings was made with a 3 Watt Laser.

On this link is a photo online presentation: http://www.transkommunikation.ch/dateien/germanium_receptor_v2/pics/mobile/index.html

On this link there are more informations about the project: http://transkommunikation.ch/dateien/germanium_receptor_v2/

Regards

Salvi / Transkomm Schweiz
http://www.transkommunikation.ch

Attached Image (viewed 1139 times):

Posted: Apr 30th, 2018 01:58 PM

Jan
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There's a long and interesting article on transcommunication in Feb 2018 Fortean Times. For the technically minded amongst us, there is a diagram of Melton's psychic telephone that could easily be updated using modern technique. Of course there's still no guarantee that it will work any better than the original...

The FT article is based on this article, where you will also find the psychic phone circuit.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/fortean-times/20180201/282763472063981

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