ITC Bridge Home 
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register

ITC Bridge has evolved into our sister site iDigitalMedium.com Please join us there or look us up on Facebook. For those of you interested in LIVE streams, go to http://idigitalmedium.com/streams As of 3/13/18 we will not be registering new users. We thank you for a wonderful 10+ years! ~ Ron & Keith

 Moderated by: Keith Clark, fratka, ArizonaEvp
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
The robot voice - theories  Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mar 7th, 2008 10:12 AM
  PM Quote Reply
1st Post
Slider2732
Member
 

Joined: Mar 3rd, 2008
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 349
Status: 
Offline
After reading many EVP related posts and from my own experiments, the robotic sound of some EVP's seems prevalent in more than the few harmonic tones method.
Of worthy note is the work of our own EVPDave, who's optical experiments are delivering stunning results, using 10 harmonics.
You might expect the mixing of pre-determined tones to give a quirky android 'speech' pattern, but, why would such a trait be present in 'normal' cassette recorder EVP's ?

The work of the original Spiricom team seemingly showed successful communications with deceased physicist, Dr. George Jeffries Mueller. He was described as presenting his voice in a robotic manner.
Concerning Dr Konstantin Raudive, in his book 'Breakthrough', he says:
"They speak in a definite rhythm, which seems forced on them."
"The rhythmic mode imposes a shortened, telegram-style phrase or sentence."

My point here, is that the robot sound may be the effect of a heterodyne circuit, a frequency division method as used in a plethora of audio related products. Such a circuit is quite new to me as a concept, which I freely admit. But, its implications to EVP seem great. If a frequency is received, heterodyne'd down (for want of better wording) to human ear levels, then an EVP may be gained, but much of the original signal may be lost.
Note how nearly all EVP are not heard with the human ear at the time of recording.

I was looking at bat detector circuits, for ideas on a new build concept and realised that frequency divider chips, counting chips that output at semi tunable frequencies, may be behind some phenomena.
As the chip counts and then outputs a signal, it divides the incoming signal into the repeated blocks...such as 1/4 or 1/256. The output, therefore, will be missing a huge amount of data, but will be recognisable as speech...it will be affected as a sound, to be heard like that of a robot.
Turning up the frequency of the pulses takes the speech out of human hearing range.
It's often reported that spirit voices may be recorded at multiples of normal speech delivery. Recordings where the info is played back at 1/4 of the recorded rate, being one common situation.

I just feel that the frequency division situation, which is meant for stripping out noise in some circuits or off-setting distortions is actually bringing more effects into possible contact devices than may be realised.

I'd welcome any thoughts :)

Last edited on Mar 7th, 2008 10:13 AM by Slider2732

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mar 7th, 2008 12:16 PM
  PM Quote Reply
2nd Post
Jeff
Moderator
 

Joined: Nov 7th, 2007
Location: Alabama USA
Posts: 127
Status: 
Offline
Mark, I simply must agree here.  I believe the sounds that end up on recorded media are that of heterodyned harmonics.  This is in regards to EVP only and not Spiricom.  This theory is especially supported by digital media.  As we know, digital data is riding on a carrier wave of fixed frequency, called the 'clock'.  If the clock is heterodyned down to the range of human hearing (20 Hz - 20kHz), it would most certainly sound 'robotic', because of the square wave nature of digital data. 

In regards to EVP on analog magnetic media, such as cassette tape, there is a high-frequency applied to the recording head called bias.  The bias is present on the head to help excite the ferrous material on the tape to accept the audio.  This results in a recording with minimum distortion, and greatest frequency response.  As of now, I believe it is the bias that is heterodyned, and ends up in the recording itself; however, not quite as clear.

Spiricom, on the other hand, is an RF based system, with antennae enclosed within a Faraday cage.  As far as we know, Spirit impinges the RF energy, while the heterodyning happens in the radio reciever.

In either case, your theory of heterodyning is substantial.

Jeff


Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Mar 7th, 2008 02:30 PM
  PM Quote Reply
3rd Post
Slider2732
Member
 

Joined: Mar 3rd, 2008
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 349
Status: 
Offline
Thanks Jeff...
Sorry about the small misunderstanding relating to Spiricom, though it seems that at least part of the process introduces hetrodyning.
The theory makes 'head sense' out of something that has many baffled. Of note, perhaps, was that in optical Spiricom, the microphone is replaced...and in several reports it is stated that the microphone need not be present.
This seems to negate popular thoughts, concerning the microphone coil, while common to both tape and digital recording.

Modulating/frequency adjusting an analog recorder bias would seem a route forward. Something i'll have a go at figuring out once I find some datasheets :)



Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mar 7th, 2008 03:44 PM
  PM Quote Reply
4th Post
Jeff
Moderator
 

Joined: Nov 7th, 2007
Location: Alabama USA
Posts: 127
Status: 
Offline
Slider2732 wrote: Thanks Jeff...
Sorry about the small misunderstanding relating to Spiricom,


Mark, whatever for?  No misunderstanding there! 

Cheers, and 'hey' to Julie!

Jeff

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Mar 7th, 2008 04:50 PM
  PM Quote Reply
5th Post
Slider2732
Member
 

Joined: Mar 3rd, 2008
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 349
Status: 
Offline
lol, oh, i'm quite new to the Spiricom scene and the odd foul up or two is likely, even if self perceived :)
Fascinating stuff though.
Will forward the regards..thanks.

I have a couple of general questions relating to radio waves and more in keeping with Spiricom, as well as traditional EVP methods.
If the various encodings and gawd knows what else are heterodyne'd, removed, changed, altered...is it possible to analyse the signal at all stages ? Could the stages be feasibly monitored and then analysed where an EVP is caught, to spot the 'kick in' of the possibly spirit based contact ?
I'm a great believer in some electronics working better than others as, for whatever reason, they seem to gather real Class A EVP's better than others. So, the next part of the theory goes that a method of signal altering employed in some proven units may be similar and so form a clue as to how to employ heterodyne stages in future research devices.

Noted items of my own, that i'm wondering about shared design stages:
Olympus Pearlcorder S702 tape based recorder
Motorola V50 cell phone
RadioShack TAD-798 telephone answering machine

If those share something, while all gave clear EVP, then it might be a step in the right direction.

 

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mar 8th, 2008 09:27 AM
  PM Quote Reply
6th Post
Keith Clark
Administrator


Joined: Dec 31st, 2006
Location: Clearwater, Florida USA
Posts: 1637
Status: 
Offline
Hi Mark,

Your theory is above my head, but I understand some parts of it. While I don't have any experience to use as a base to comment on, I can say that your theory sounded very interesting. I don't think I've heard anything like that before.

...But I don't need to understand it to wonder how a practical application of testing this theory would work. So, if the frequency division could be understood as resulting in loss of original signal, how could the process be reversed to augment or recreate some of the original signal?

Keith

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Mar 8th, 2008 10:13 AM
  PM Quote Reply
7th Post
Slider2732
Member
 

Joined: Mar 3rd, 2008
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 349
Status: 
Offline
Yep, that would be the next part of my theory..something which evolves with people posting of course. I don't have the theory up my sleeve hehe

If the signals being stripped, are recombined at later stages, might we gain clearer EVP ?

The result 'should' be increased noise and unwanted rubbish in the signal. But, considering that many people introduce white noise to record or clean up results, it just seems highly likely that the original noise that was removed can work much better !

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Mar 9th, 2008 12:54 PM
  PM Quote Reply
8th Post
Jeff
Moderator
 

Joined: Nov 7th, 2007
Location: Alabama USA
Posts: 127
Status: 
Offline
Slider2732 wrote: I have a couple of general questions relating to radio waves and more in keeping with Spiricom, as well as traditional EVP methods.
If the various encodings and gawd knows what else are heterodyne'd, removed, changed, altered...is it possible to analyse the signal at all stages ?
You bet it is; but with digital devices, not easily done.  Here's an example:

The clock is a separate stage, usually fixed in frequency by a crystal made of rochelle salt, and runs continuously as long as it is energized.  So we'll leave that as a given.

The audio path has several stages.  The first stage is the audio-to-digital converter (ADC).  The input to this stage is from the microphone, or line level input(s).  The analog (continuously varying voltage) signal is sampled several thousand times per second.  Each sample of the incoming wave is assigned a digital number, and is stored in memory, either on media or in RAM.  The next sample is stored the same way; and so on and so on... until recording is ceased.  Now we have a bunch of numbers, representing voltages stored.  When we play them back, those numbers are fed to the next stage:

The digital-to-analog converter (DAC).  This stage takes every number; converts it to a voltage potential; and feeds those voltages to an audio amplifier that either drives an output speaker; built-in to the unit; and/or to a line-level output connector that we can connect to our playback system.

So a signal analyzer and oscilloscope could be placed at the input and output of each stage for analysis.  Unfortunately, this would require expensive equipment that can respond to the clock frequency.  Often 1GHz or more.  I believe the Spirit impingement could be occuring at either section.  The reason I think this, is it would make sense if the samples from the audio are being disturbed and stored in memory with such disturbance.  The DAC section reads the stored data, converts back to voltage, and again, may get a disturbance, maybe even contributing to the audio distortions further. 

But to respond to your question, the answer is definitely yes!  But I think, at this moment anyway, one would have to create other sections that are tapped from the original path, to identify and filter out those disturbances, only, and now having them isolated, can re-create the original sounds.

Really, the same would apply to an analog device.  At the first stage there is a pre-amplifier, which feeds to a recording amplifier (during recording).  During playback, the signal is again applied to a different pre-amplifier (because of different voltage and impedance) to an output amplifier.  That's it.  The scope can be placed at any of these stages for analysis.  But again, I refer to the recording section here, as the bias signal is of great suspect!  It is RF, and can be easily modulated.  I believe that in analog recording, the Spirit happens during the recording, not the playback.  The bias signal cannot be heared while recording; and cannot be heard during playback.  Only if it is heterodyned!

Hope this all helps in one way, or another!

Blessings!

Jeff

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Mar 9th, 2008 05:48 PM
  PM Quote Reply
9th Post
Slider2732
Member
 

Joined: Mar 3rd, 2008
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 349
Status: 
Offline
Thanks Jeff for that marvellous summary of the component parts :biggrin:

I've built an R2R ladder in the past and have some familiarity with signal processing, but I guess i'm one of those chaps that likes to see what's going on lol
In audio, once things go digital they are lost to me, til they become analog again!
The trickery pokery of the process is what caused the thoughts.

Nevertheless, recent forays have included the binary or hexadecimal realms and resulted in many fun observations. By that, I mean that, essentially, a pin on a chip is usually a 1 or 0, on or off...and then there are thresholds for the switching between.
Some random messing around, that then turned more serious and logical, resulted in my EMF meter based on an Intel 8255. Damn thing works wonderfully, for a 1970's basic I/O chip, with a useful range of about 6ft when a couple of components and a coil were added. It's best for static though, walking past makes the LED's flash lol

So, that lead me to experiments the last few days with a 16pin Toshiba TA7613AP AM/FM audio chip. It was housed in a cheapo portable radio and I wanted to find out what was being output from the thing. Pins 3 and 6 introduce noise to the signal, when a speaker is connected to Ground and either pin. I forget which did what, but a 10uF capacitor on one of them introduced a mild spaciality to the signal. In my opinion, that sounded better than the original signal with AM.

Other experiments over the last few days have been with a Panasonic RN-305 micro cassette recorder. I decided to use this for live EVP. Cut the motor wires, take the cassette mechanism off and hardwire the record and play connections. Finally, the audio out is from the record head area. This results in a 'what you hear is what youd get' type of thing, bypassing the cassette bit altogether. Essentially, whatever goes into the unit while recording, goes straight out of the speaker.
That recorder has a 20 pin chip with no i.d on it. One effect has been with pin 9 on that, an LED to Ground and that pin produces some kind of bounce. The LED reacts like a rubber ball dropped from a few feet.
The other comical thing with the cassette recorder was when I fitted a light sensor from an old mouse instead of the microphone. Can play the thing like a theramin :biggrin:

The way signals are fed around audio circuit chips is now my next area of exploration.
Points at which the signals change is a focus. A datasheet only gives so much information...actually getting in there and altering things may produce clues to minimise our spirit friends problems with communication.


Last edited on Mar 9th, 2008 05:54 PM by Slider2732

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Jun 8th, 2008 02:17 PM
  PM Quote Reply
10th Post
MrZeta
Member


Joined: Jun 8th, 2008
Location: Maine USA
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline
Hello,

Slider you mentioned EVPDave - is the same evpdave on youtube (!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvykgq2TWs8

I put this video up as a curio - this fella works with detuned radios I think...I sent him an email on youtube.

What do you all think he is doing in the above video ?

I have alot of info on Spiricom, and equipment to reproduce the tests. I tried once but didnt follow through opting for more sophisticated techniques.

I can say that there seems to be much relevance to the Spiricom technique; basically it is called 'mixing'; however the theory is really impossible using today's physics; you can mix audio and RF, but 28MHZ apart is useless for any practical purposes; in our dimension that is !!

I feel, and have had conversations with one person that there may be different dimensional planes of existance, and that different ITC devices contact these different planes of existance. This is primarily due to the frequencies involved.

Time is also a factor and plays an important part as well.

Good luck to researchers here; your contribution is important.

MrZeta

 

 

 

 

 

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Jun 8th, 2008 02:33 PM
  PM Quote Reply
11th Post
MrZeta
Member


Joined: Jun 8th, 2008
Location: Maine USA
Posts: 74
Status: 
Offline
I read yer post...regarding stages and digital...

Listen to this...I read a couple years back even that it has been suggessted that data on harddisks can be manipulated by entities; that previously recorded tapes with no voices can have voices on them played back later (go figure on this one as this is direct magnetic manipulation of tape structure, which I have no doubt can be done)...diff people say they hear diff things or see diff pictures...even the web is being 'attacked' by entities possibly.

I was working with one audio amp chip and a few resistors and a religious station came blaring through with a few kind words about GOD then promptly left; you think I had a recorder going...:(; and that was just one audio chip with no feedback loop; give me a break entities!

It is best to stick with the main intent of Spricom design; it is the outwardly interdimensional mixing that takes place, possibly, and how we record that, that is important.

The internals dont affect that much; in fact the older the equipment probly the better; I knew my tubes might come in handy someday.

In answer, you could tap into each stage, but you would have to have good equipment an such (like scopes etc) and good grounding; it wouldnt be worth it as far as Spiricom goes.

I thought about using a CB radio as the transmitter (BTW I am an advanced class ham operator), as 28MHZ was one freq mentioned.

We could talk in a technical thread for more info.

MrZeta

 

 

 

 

Last edited on Jun 8th, 2008 02:35 PM by MrZeta

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Jun 8th, 2008 06:30 PM
  PM Quote Reply
12th Post
EVPDave
Moderator
 

Joined: Mar 7th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 206
Status: 
Offline
MrZeta wrote: Hello,

Slider you mentioned EVPDave - is the same evpdave on youtube (!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvykgq2TWs8

I put this video up as a curio - this fella works with detuned radios I think...I sent him an email on youtube.

What do you all think he is doing in the above video ?
 


Yes, they are one in the same person, namely me, EVPDave.  The link you posted is a demonstration of the optical microphone I have developed. This particular video was also a tribute to the late Dee Robb from Milwaukee.

This 'microphone' works very well for EVP work. I hope to use it in a group session someday. The flame you see in the video is actually the microphone element so to speak. The flame is physically vibrated by any sound nearby (or air currents) and the vibrations of light are picked up by the two solar cell panels mounted near the flame.

It is a simple device but takes some time to set-up properly. So the sound you hear in the video is produced by a vibrating flame, the small speaker is modulating/vibrating the flame. The meter shown in the video is a standard tri-field meter, I did not notice any meter fluctuations during the video.

I hope this helps explain the process,

EVPDave

Last edited on Jun 9th, 2008 03:53 AM by EVPDave

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Jun 8th, 2008 06:58 PM
  PM Quote Reply
13th Post
Slider2732
Member
 

Joined: Mar 3rd, 2008
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 349
Status: 
Offline
Hey there MrZeta...
I've no idea if Dave is the same guy, the microphone on the video looked suspicious , along with the VU meter :)
*EDIT* Hi Dave ! LOL

From posts here and from other gathered knowledge, it seems that death moves us upward to a frequency and from there to higher frequencies again. Seems to be in stages and based upon learned existence laws that are somewhat instructed to us. Not being religious in any strict manner, such a thing is perhaps easier to comprehend for myself than for other folks. But, ultimately and as my learning point is, we achieve a resonance with the whole of creation.
EVP's seem to come forward most often from 'trapped' individuals, those who haven't properly crossed over to the learning stages and therefore exhibit more human traits than properly crossed individuals. Nearly all ghosts fall into 2 categories, residual and active. Residual being mere energy playbacks of usually traumatic events, active being people with big reasonings to stay where the haunting takes place. After all, you don't get a ghost of someone appearing in different locations, hauntings by someone happen in the same place...often gaining a notoriety as the ghost of wherever it is.
The few others may be attributed to demonic presences, or other never human entities..the bullies of the spirit world. Those who have no experience of life and so see us with a jealousy.
Whom we seem to contact are also of two types. The people on the first plane, ones who made it across and through the light etc. The others, the ones who need help to actually make it through the light and onward.
That first stage, the first plane of the afterlife have a lot of human traits. Time is still important, frequencies are (at least to them) the same as in life, second by second can impart information to them and to us. The strongest link of which is the deceased family member scenario, with the person imparting a goodbye.

All of that implies that communications have no real barrier or code to break. They shout and we don't hear, simple as that and that distance gets larger over our perceived time periods.
Where both sides can work together, is to find out what the change is of frequencies between life and death. We lose a voicebox, but what do we gain ? Fundamentally, what do both sides still share ? After all, communications would still seem possible by a myriad of experimental methods.

To reference Jeff from an earlier post in the topic, the bias, as given to recording heads, might be considered the carrier system from our own minds too.
We ourselves mentally communicate based on a resonance. If we don't like someone we give out negative vibes, probably most noticeable to those who know us. Things can be subtle, but they're definitely there. Often cited are 'sparks flying' between two people, where a romance may develop. It's, in my opinion, the same frequency manipulations that spirits use as their carrier frequencies.
Some people are totally sceptical, their frequencies in no way match those of attuned sensitives. Also, sensitives often cannot rationalise in the Occams Razor manner of sceptics.
So, upshot of all that is that I believe the channelling of a spirit to be at least partially the domain of the receiving person, the experimenter.
I fully believe an awesome technology for repeatable contact will arrive, but can't be marketed like the Milton Bradley toy version of the Ouija board !



To better develop the robot voice phenomenon, we may need to construct a multi frequency splitting heterodyne stage. Normally, frequencies may be divided by for example 4, giving a 1/4 of the frequency the entity spoke at (a Bat Detector circuit can be used as reference). The trick, may be to seperately divide the signal by 4, so that quarters 1, 2, 3 and 4 can be recombined, to give the full signal, but at a frequency we can hear.
How to make sense of that is the next fundamental problem. At a 1/4, we lose 3/4 but hear it as a robot. Recombining would shift the resultant signal back up to the full frequency...no sound.
If we take the first 1/4 sound result and store it in an EEPROM (or PC), then go back over the signal 3 times, re-heterodyning the missing 1/4's sections and storing them at their EEPROM addresses, do we get a 4x lower shifted full sound or 4x slower?
If the sound itself was played back at a rate 4x quicker than the stored speed, do we then have the original signal at the right speed our ears can hear ?
Such experiments can be done with real world sounds. We can hear 16kHz and we can hear 4kHz, a 1/4 of the original.
If we can then ramp that up once it works, to a system that real-time samples the information and samples/plays out at 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 or whatever we choose, it might be an exciting route forward :)

Last edited on Jun 8th, 2008 06:59 PM by Slider2732

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Jun 9th, 2008 06:43 AM
  PM Quote Reply
14th Post
Keith Clark
Administrator


Joined: Dec 31st, 2006
Location: Clearwater, Florida USA
Posts: 1637
Status: 
Offline
Hi Guys,

Just wanted to throw in my penny.......Let us not also forget that Bill O'Neil is claimed to have possible skills of physical mediumship - an element which if true, is believed to play a major part in the Spiricom communication - a part even larger than that of the equipment itself.

True, 29.5Mhz today is considered pretty low on the frequency scale.......which makes me wonder who has the money and equipment to try higher frequencies. You would think that the higher you go, the better your chances would be.

Keith

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Jun 17th, 2008 09:22 AM
  PM Quote Reply
15th Post
Slider2732
Member
 

Joined: Mar 3rd, 2008
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 349
Status: 
Offline
Sorry for the slight delay...currently in a hotel in Oklahoma while we look for a house.

I would agree about the frequency divisions possibly holding more the higher you go. One might imagine that any frequency, GHz etc would be reliably frequency divisible and it's something to work on in experiments, with operator adjustable rates. Have to watch for those frequencies currently in use of course, 2.4GHz being common for telephones, for one example. Indeed, the operation of telephones might form an easier building block to work from in my own case, for higher frequencies.
Certainly paranormal equipment seems to work better in some hands than others. Could be as simple as the user of the equipment uses it more because they hold a bigger interest, but a psychic connection of a balanced manner would be very useful in extended research. In my opinion, learning about ourselves, never solidifying thoughts on the supernatural and understanding the way we ourselves think, brings forward a natural energy connection to many others.
I'm quite excited about trying all this out...just got to get a house first and move our gear back out of storage :smile:

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Nov 18th, 2009 07:08 AM
  PM Quote Reply
16th Post
JessGulbranson
Member
 

Joined: Nov 17th, 2009
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Posts: 8
Status: 
Offline
Just saw this thread, which seems very germane to my question in the EVP section.  The heterodyning theory is very interesting and makes a lot of sense, and even apart from any of the alleged organized attempts from beyond to contact, even random spirit contacts on digital equipment would likely produce some old-school lossy sound.  I'm trying to think of an analog-y, ha, but I'm sure we all get it anyway. It would be nice to get down to the nitty gritty on this and get- if not repeatability- then the ability to analyze some recordings and have some Aha! moments.

And my mom did keep her answering machine message.  I'll try to take my UX2 and mic over and record it as cleanly as possible, and see what sense I can make out of it.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

Current time is 07:20 PM  
ITC Bridge > Instrumental Transcommunication (ITC) > Dedicated SPIRICOM Forum > The robot voice - theories Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2817 seconds (51% database + 49% PHP). 29 queries executed.