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Posted: Jan 10th, 2007 01:04 PM |
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Dr Lewis
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I know the major focus of the board is the above, while my own specific interest is physical mediumship which one may take EVP/ITC to be a part of. However, despite advances in this area I have a number of concerns. Perhaps it is best to list them as a number of questions, eg;
1. I am concerned with the quality, and often the banality and at times rudeness of some communications. In this regard I would refer researchers to Coopers book 'Hungry Spirits'. In Coopers investigation of spirit phenomena he came to the conclusion that much of the phenomena was genuine, but quite a few of the communicators were not who they said they were. This could be a real possibility in EVP/ITC research. The possibility of rogue communicators and even poltergeist actiivity cannot be ruled out. Indeed I have even witnessed this in a physical circle, so communicators must look for substantial eveidence and quality of communications.
2. The quality of the broadcasts is often poor (I know we are at an early stage!), and often can be open to a number of interpretations. There is still little evidence of sustatined communication (two way) as in direct voice mediumship (ie, such as Leslie Flint). I know Spiricom was a breakthrough, but as far as I can see it has not been replicated to date.
3. Survival evidence from deceased loved ones is the key here. Quality, sustained evidence is lacking to date.
4. There is wide interpretation as to the conditions in the spirit realms. In some way this is to be expected as communicatirs have differing experiences. I was however greatly disturbed by the work of Mark Macey and his description of the great river, and indeed higher level 'technical beings' from other dimensions. We are not in a position to know this. Indeed the Scole experiements here in England were stopped as they were getting 'higher dimensional beings', whatever that means !. We need clear, sustained communications from loved ones in spirit to loved ones here, with grading of evidence quality (as Arthur Findlay did in On the Edge of the Etheric)..so please fellow searchers, aim for quality..not quantity !.
Hope these points raise some debate. I would welcome readers views
Malcolm
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Keith Clark
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Hello Malcolm,
I would like to share some comments regarding your conversation.
Fortunately, I have never experienced negative or hostile comments in my recordings or experiments, or at least not anything that I would recognize as such.
Unfortunately, I haven't really had the opportunity yet to be concerned with whom I am speaking to or recording with, so I haven't had to deal with the issue of discerning true identities of spirit communicators. Rather than talk to them, I mostly know them by their faces in the pictures I receive. Judging from my research and the experiences of others, this is definitely an area of concern.
I would agree that evidence of sustained communications is somewhat scarce, but perhaps also owing to the nature of the rare ability of physical mediumship. Currently, I view the events of The Circle of the Silver Chord as momentous. I would much rather there be fewer instances of these events with mountains of evidence rather than multiple instances with little to no evidence.
I would definitely wholeheartedly agree with you that the most prolific evidence in anyone's mind is when they receive a message from a family member in spirit which could not have been known by any person present in physical form. Hands down, I see this as the most astounding and powerful evidence. The question is: does everyone in the world have to experience this before they believe? Perhaps.
It seems that most information given to us is meant to give us a glimpse of what it's like on the other side. At the same time, it also seems that much information is withheld for our best interests. Still, I'm not aware of any obvious discrepancies which could not be construed as simply areas of which we have no current knowledge. Perhaps we could discuss them.
While it is true that much of the information received in the early 90's definitely passes the "boggle point", I sense that an effort is currently underway (by the spirit side) to bring this information to a more digestible level for the common man - something which they can understand, something which they can relate to. I feel that in the near future there will be a wildfire of unexplained events, instances of spirit communication.
3 of the best examples I can think of regarding direct messages from loved ones in spirit would be:
Sonia Rinaldi in Brazil (A.N.T.) and the telephone conversations in which parents speak with their deceased children.
Marcello Bacci in Italy - conversations over radio between people and their loved ones, held regularly, an event which has been occurring for many many years.
John Edward in the U.S. - a psychic medium who is making quite an impact across the world by giving unique distinct messages to people from their loved ones on the other side. Though the word "psychic medium" raises eyebrows, John has been tested many times for authenticity and is touching millions. The evidence will be obvious mostly in the hearts of the people receiving the messages.
I've spent the last year trying to figure out the answer to this simple question - Why haven't people heard about evidence of life after death? It's been piling up for over 100 years. It seems some evidence has never made it to the public, and the majority of it that does is still only usually found when people who search for it. For example, did you know Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (author of Sherlock Holmes books) researched life after death and wrote books about it? Not only that, but you can read them for free online, verbatim messages from the other side and much more. Now, if I see a special on him on the Discovery channel, will they mention this? No. So why am I surprised every time I find something new?
In my view, the problem isn't a lack of evidence.....it's a lack of cooperative efforts & framework to link all the evidence together in a presentable form which is easy for the public to be aware of. The media doesn't help either. Perhaps the problem here is that people still consider evidence of life after death to be subjective, based on the opinions of the individual. As such, there is no organized structure around which this information is bound together. Sounds like a catch-22.
Will talk soon,
Keith
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Posted: Jan 17th, 2007 03:11 PM |
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Imagi
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Dr. Lewis,
Sorry to say but you wont be raising any debate from me!!
You are totally inspiring and exactly CORRECT!
I agree, we need loved one to loved one contact.
Macy and Bacci had a lot of the qualities you brought up in their work,
But alas it isn't easily reproduced. I believe there are many more restrictions with ITC/evp than there are with Physical psychic circles.
With ITC there's deffinite space/time issues. We're communicating with a dimension out of synch with our own and who's physics is almost entirely different. On occasion contacts with entities who aren't even spirits, but living beings from parallel universes was made! It's a dangerous field to get into, especially when dealing with "Temponaughts", time travellers who have their own agenda.
And apparently the elusive "ethereal beings" play a paramount role in opening a "bridge" between worlds helping to make sure we aren't put at risk by any of these maligned entities. I would agree with you, they are merely distractions that serve only to hurt the subject of Continuation of Survival.
I myself am quite young but display physical mediumship skill and have been urged to develop this in a circle. When my small circle was meeting last year we yielded some positive results very quickly into our meetings. Unfortunately the location fell through and we no longer hold the circles.
Dr. Gary Schwartz seems to be geared more toward the type of research measures you are talking about. And he is deffinitely about quality, not quantity.
I was most impressed with his work with a Dream psychic Chris Robinson (all of these people I am sure you know of).
Will be following your posts sir!
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cat
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Hello Dr Lewis, You have made a good few points there,Alot of the time we dont know who we are talking to and they dont always give us a name when they leave a message in Evp, I did ask my mum to give me alot of proof as to what was her name etc,There was one recording where another spirit thought they were being funny and try to pass off a message that was supposed to have come from my mum,But i caught on very quickly and knew my mum would never say such terrible things.Also as you know my mum i have got the evidence to back up my mums proof.Now if i can recall she did mention something regarding lower spirits and sometimes my mum does have to whisper to say a few things,It is like she doesnt want the others to hear,lol.Now i have told my group at all times if they receive any captures that swear etc they have to ignore and delete.I have posted a kind of prediction in my forum and if it turns out right then i would say my mum has yet again given me evidence.
In another forum there was a talk regarding the quality of Evps and they were talking about the quality of reel to reel,Now if i can recall they were on about climate change ozone and how the world is now more technilogical more advanced than it was yrs ago,So in otherwords they were meaning that is when reel to reel was done there wasnt too much static kind of interference and alot of people were not recording Evp as they are now.
I really cant comment on Mark Macey and what things he has been told or images he has,But i can say when i did an evening of itc images i asked for a picture of their world,And guess what i got back a picture of mountains and these mountains are made up of hundreds of people,And the tv screen did not change in all the time i was looking at it,So i still say at any time if they want to show you a specific image they can manipulate the loop effect without you being aware of this.
Cat
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JT
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Hello Dr. Lewis,
I'm somewhat of a rookie in that I've only been involved in ITC for a year and a half or so. My understanding of it is that there is a huge volume of first-class, well documented and scrutinized audio, video, and text communications received through the channels of radio, television, telephone, computer, and more. A large portion of these communications are from family members of the experimenters or of the audience present during the experiment and have been accurate according to the earth-side family members.
Much of this is of course available on worlditc.org. Also, Mark Macy has recently posted pdf versions of Contact! magazine which reproduced many of the amazing contacts received in the 90's by Eurpoean and American experimenters:
http://spiritfaces.com/3d-Contact.htm
And as Keith mentioned, clear 2-way dialogue via radio and telephone has been achieved numerous times by researchers such as Sonia Rinaldi, the Harsh-Fischbachs, and Marcello Bacci. These recordings can be heard on worlditc.org and on other websites.
So, I think there is probably enough evidence out there to address your concerns about the quality, content, and accuracy of ITC as a channel for communication, unless you feel you have already reviewed this evidence and are still unconvinced. I'd welcome your thoughts on this.
All the best,
John Topp
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Posted: Jan 18th, 2007 03:49 PM |
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Imagi
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I agree with you JT, there's lots of positive evidence as well as communication from kind hearted spirits who are loved ones.
Even outside of ITC/evp, and into Mediumship we are seeing extremely positive results.
Although I do also agree with Dr. Lewis about concerns regarding lower level entities. It seems EVEN THE BEST, like Mark Macy had a few run in's with very negative beings.
The question to be considered here at this point is: "Will an encounter with Dark Entities be inevitable for EVERYONE who ventures into experimenting with trans-dimensional communication"?
I think so.
Because at this time the thought forms, and vibrations on the physical Earth are simply too low and materialistic to create a constant link with the light ethereal realms.
I believe some sort of training and information should be provided for future experimenters.
The majority of contacts are loving. The majority of experiences are positive.
And so the evidence should be presenting survival of consciousness at this point.
Indeed it does.
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JT
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Dug around a bit on worlditc.org.
This page presents a good cross section of itc contacts:
http://worlditc.org/j_01_macy_examples_of_contacts.htm
On this page you'll find a text message George Meek received from his wife who had passed on:
"One incident in Jeannette's letter to George had to do with a house key that their tenant Debbie had lost, and the Meeks had to loan her a key. A second had to do with a box of research books that were sent to their colleague Ann Valentin in California, but somehow got lost in transit. And the third item involved a yard light which a local electrician replaced in their back yard and then charged the Meeks what Jeannette considered to be an outrageous sum of money for the small job.
The three incidents were of no particular interest to anyone—including George—but they provided solid proof that Jeannette was alive and well two years after her physical death. No one but George and Jeannette and their assistant Molly knew about the house key, the books, and the yard light. Despite the trivial nature of the message, George knew it was a very important letter. His main goal in life, after all, was to convince the world that we live forever. There is no death. His dear Jeannette had proven that with this simple computer letter.
intoc@@@@@entingeninluxemburg/eienliebefreundinvonmir,jeannetteme
ekmoechteandieserstelleeinigeworteanihrenaufeuereseiteweilendenga ttenrichten/ichubergebeihrde-nzeilensender/
DEARGW/I'DLIKETOCOOKUPAFEWGDODNAMESFORYOUBELIEVINGICOULDHAVEWINGS
!IAMSUREYOURECALLIHAVEOFTENTOLDYOUTHATTHEREARELOTSOFTHINGSYOUCOME
INHANDYFOR---
NOTONLYTODO(SUCHASTAKECAPSOFPILLBOTTLES)BUTALSOTOTELLSOMEBODYELSE
JUSrWHATTODO(EXPERTADVICE)/WELL,ITSEEMSASIFTHEREARESTILLPEOPLEWHO
DONOTBELIEVINTHECONTACTSYOURFRIENDSOFCETLAREHAVING/HERESOMEDETAIL
SWHICHEXCEPTYOUANDMOLLY(GIVEHERNYWARMESTGREETINGS,IMISSHER)NOBODY
CANKNOW/:INI987,ENODFAPRIL.TENANTOEBBIECALLEOTOSAYHERREFRIGERATOR
WASOFF/ITMUSTHAVEBEENONATHURSDAYMORNINGANONOCONNECTIONWITHTHESTOR
MWEHADBEFORE/ATTHECLOSEOFHERWORKDAYSHECALLEDAGAINTOSAYSHEWASHAVIN
GM,ORETROUBLE/THISTIMESHEHADLEFTHERPURSEONTHESEATOFTHECAROFTHELAD
YWITHWHOMSHEHAOSEENRIDING/THISLADYWASQUITEFARFROMFRANKLINSODEBBIE
ASKEDTOBORROWOURKEYTOHERPLACE/ANOTHERSTORY:ONAPRIL29THANNVALENTIN
WROTEALETTERTHATSHEHADNOTRECEIVEDTHEMAGICBOOKLETSTHEYHADORDERD,BU
THARLEQUINNOVELS/THIRDSTORY;JOHNLATHRON(IDON'TTHINKMAGGIEANDJULES
EVERHEARDTHISNAME)SHUTOFFTHEELECTRICITYATTHECHOUSETOPUTINTHENEWLI
GHT/HEWASN'TDOWNTHEREVERYLONGBUTCHARGED$20SERVICEADDITIONTO$40FOR
THEBULBITSELFPLUSTAX(THESCOUNDREL)/SOTRYTOEXPLAINTHIS,HONEY/MYNEV
ERENDINGLOVETOYOU/IMISSYOUSOMUCHBUTIKNOWWWEWILLBETOGETHER/IHAVEBI
GWORKTODOHERE/RESULTOFTHATIDIOTWAR/LOVEFOREVER/JDM/
pleasemaggy/forwardthistogeorge/hecanbeofgreathelptoyouall/sendmy
bestwishestoloreealso/thankyou/jeannetteduncanmeek/kontaktende/..
Jeannette's letter to George (spirit text)
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Posted: Jan 18th, 2007 04:38 PM |
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Dr Lewis
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Well, many thanks for the well constructed replies. The readers on this board show a deep insight into these problems, so thank you all. I am afraid I am one of these people who is still learning regarding EVP/ITC.
My comments come after having almost 20 years experience of sitting with physical mediums. In that time I have witnessed probably the whole spectrum of physical manifestations, ie trumpet mediumship, direct voice, trumpet voice, deep trance, transfiguration, materialisation and spirit produced lights. I have seen mediums bound and secured in chairs moved bodily from one end of a room to another. I have spoken to, been slapped on the back, shook hands with, and recieved direct healing from materialised spirit people from mature adults to children, so I am very lucky indeed...
I care not a jot if I get direct evidence myself, although I have had this and it is marvelous. My greatest thrill is to sit in such a circle and listen to the communications of peoples loved ones, people who can establish identity and be recognised. When that happens there is often not a dry eye in the place...that my friends is the true nature of survival. It has been demonstrated through many selfless mediums in the past, but today we are seeing (I hope) a new determined effort to establish this reality.
I am sometimes I feel focused in the past, but in relation to survival we can learn such a lot from this. I am sure many readers have read, and if not, should do the book by Arthur Findlay 'On the Edge of the Etheric'. In this great book Findlay grades survival evidence from the superb direct voice mediumship of John Sloan. That is the important thing, survival of loved ones. I hope EVP/ITC will continue to develop towards this aim. All the physical manifestations of the seance room mean very little if there is no evidence and purpose behind the communications, but such manifestations often are produced by the spirit people to demonstrate, under the right conditions, just how close our two worlds can be.
All the best to you all
Malcolm
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MrZeta
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I have read stories where we, when in the astral, if we are asked, we must help others who have passed on; sort of speak; what is interesting, is that these people may not be of this planet, or plane of existance.
I did have a few astrals of my grandparents and dad a few times; very real feeling indeed; so is the mind; our minds are very complex.
In my quest for ITC/EVP, I do not ask for passed loved ones; well that is not entirely true; as my past tapes were of areas where I asked about people who may not have left their next life into the higher dimensions they may be headed for (IE or helping others who have past get to heaven or above or whatever; just helping them with something.
The story goes that many do not know they have passed; I have gotten that experience from my passed relatives and others I didnt know; most of the time I didnt feel it was my duty to tell them.
In EVP work I am not striving for voices from those who passed; but any voices in my general work area. In a couple tapes from old forts I got voices and sounds I couldnt explain; I feel they might be from people who have passed in that area but dont know that they have passed maybe.
How are these other worlds recreated for them; what about that question; what about that cannon shot I got on one tape; very clear and I need to have that analyzed.
My thoughts that using lasers might contact 'higher level' beings; in fact they migh be people who have passed from this Earth and have passed through several planes of existances; IE getting 'closer' to becoming 'light beings'.
I can vouch for the authenticity of the existance of multiple dimensions; either being higher due to higher frequency levels or whatnot; or just different, like red and blue; close to each other in frequency but still different.
I dont know what drives me to work on this laser EVP project; I do know some of the reasons though, and I am happy with them so far.
MrZeta
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