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Notemanz
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Guys,
F.Y.I I obtained a documentary about EVP and ITC done in 2000. It is very interesting and had some features on Alec Macrae and others. One of the most interesting sections was on George Meek and Spiricom. Very great profile on George and O'neill. Sad to say there is a very controversial piece of footage (video) showing the device in use.
In one of the clips, Mueller scolds O'neill for turning the camera on. I'll post the exact title of this show in this thread. I'm now convinced and it is my opinion that O'neill was not credible. Why, I pose to all of us, would Mueller as a supposed spirit entity get angry when the video was filiming? Makes no sense that a "cranky" spirit (scientist no less) would have a problem with video documentation.
Sarah Esetp is also featured in this program and she is dubious at best re: SPiricom in that it has never to date been duplicated although many have tried.
I post this a fodder for discussion. Although I personally feel that Spircom was on the right track, I' have grave doubts re: O'neill and his credibility.
John D
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Notemanz
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Here is the name of the program if you can find it:
Witness: Voices of the Dead
British channel 4
Dec. 2001
J
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Jeff
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Notemanz wrote: Guys,
F.Y.I I obtained a documentary about EVP and ITC done in 2000. It is very interesting and had some features on Alec Macrae and others. One of the most interesting sections was on George Meek and Spiricom. Very great profile on George and O'neill. Sad to say there is a very controversial piece of footage (video) showing the device in use.
In one of the clips, Mueller scolds O'neill for turning the camera on. I'll post the exact title of this show in this thread. I'm now convinced and it is my opinion that O'neill was not credible. Why, I pose to all of us, would Mueller as a supposed spirit entity get angry when the video was filiming? Makes no sense that a "cranky" spirit (scientist no less) would have a problem with video documentation.
Sarah Esetp is also featured in this program and she is dubious at best re: SPiricom in that it has never to date been duplicated although many have tried.
I post this a fodder for discussion. Although I personally feel that Spircom was on the right track, I' have grave doubts re: O'neill and his credibility.
John D
Dear Lord in Heaven, John! This is sad news to say the very least! As you said, this is for discussion. So I will attempt.
Jeff
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Jeff
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Notemanz wrote:
In one of the clips, Mueller scolds O'neill for turning the camera on.
Here, I do not understand at all. We first must maintain there are those that have the knowledge to manipulate video data. That data may be manipulated by those who would not want us to have truth. I am not saying someone has manipulated said data. I only bring this to the table for further discussion.
Those of us who use video data manipulation can see the signature of said changes.
I hope those with that talent will speak up. If not, we may settle on the fact that the video is real...and so sad for us! Especially me. I may have wasted time and money on this research.
Jeff
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Jeff
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Notemanz wrote: Sarah Esetp is also featured in this program and she is dubious at best re: SPiricom in that it has never to date been duplicated although many have tried.
I certainly recognize Sarah Estep as a pioneer of the EVP research! And she is quite correct in saying "it has never been duplicated...".
Having said that, with all due respect to Sarah (and I really respect her!), Sarah was not a phycisist, or electrical engineer. If anyone reads the Spiricom Technical Manual, there is information within it that no-one can denounce, or disprove. The Technical Manual was a composite of laboratory tests, by people of doctoral knowledge. And we must keep that fact in mind.
They used the best equipment available at the time, and documented their findings from an objective point of view.
As an EE, I can attest to their approach of the research. However, I cannot attest to the absolute lab work having been done, since I was not there.
But John, I am glad you brought these findings up. If there are falsifications, then we, as a group, must rule them out! After all, we are here to find the truth, nothing else!
Good work there, and I hope we can sort it all out!
Blessings!
Jeff
Last edited on Feb 20th, 2008 07:01 PM by Jeff |
Notemanz
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Jeff,
Great points! I was quite amazed by what I saw. I believe that this section might well be in the audio recordings. Here's what I saw:
Bill (back to camera) is talking to Mueller. Bill is using demonstrative gestures facing the equipment. Mueller remarks (I will follow with the direct quote):
"Turn off that damn camera!..." Bill humbly says "yes Doctor" etc....
There is a brief exchange further that I'll post (when I get home etc...)...
It is indeed the spiricom voice that is so recognizable as Mueller's. Now, why in the world would a discarnate entity and scientist react this way? Mueller is supposedly helping the team with both apparatus and technique. Why in the world would "he" not want to have the world see the device? Why would he not want a video documentation of the very far-fetched contention of true contact?
The answer that is most logical is that Bill O'neill in fact did not want "That damn camera" on while he was "talking" to Mueller.
We must use logic and common sense here. Bill O'neill never wanted to be photographed from the front(!) while the device was in operation. Why?
We can certainly draw conclusions. The mere fact that science has not been able to duplicate the work (Done in the archaic 80's no less!) is very telling.
Jeff your expertise is phenomal and I have no doubt other qualified engineering types can not only build but improve the basic design. That's why I prefeced by saying that I do believe Meek was on the right track here. My own data shows me that there is something here to explore no doubt!
Another telling moment from this docu is the footage from the press conference where Meek presents the system. Bill O'neill does not say a word and sits quietly at the table while Meek takes the tough questions.
And yes for sure Sarah is (was God bless) a seminal figure and pioneer in the field and certainly, was not a scientist. However, her point is well taken... To this point, as she says so well "Spiricom has been silent for the last 20 years."
Absolutely agree we should all kick this around more. I don't think your time has been wasted! The principles seem sound. Now we've got to develop the box that works for god sakes!!
More to follow and I'll give as much info as I can I'm not sure this video is readily available.
Best,
John D
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Jeff
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Well! First of all, thank you John. You're compliments were so kind. John, I have not seen this recording. However, I must agree with you. That does not sound like Dr. Mueller at all; and this does not synchronize with the research, as we have been led to believe.
Now, with all due respect, Bill O'Neil was the psychic; not the phycisist, or engineer. That may be the reason he remained silent during the interview. I really don't know. At this point in time, none of us really know. It was 20+ years ago.
If you can, please post a link to the recording.
Jeff
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Notemanz
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Will do Jeff! To clarify, per "The Ghost of 29 Megacycles" Bill O'neill was an avid Ham radio and electronics wiz. Meek provided the capital and O'neill came up with the "device." Bill also supposedly had psychic abilites. To my knowledge, only George and Bill were present at these exchanges. Some times O'neill was the only one and played these back for George upon his visits.
George wanted and intended to start to video record Dr. Mic and of course Mueller, but before he could do so, surprise, the transmissions ended.... HMMMMM
Accoding to Meek: "Bill was an eccentric and irrasible man." Sometimes hard to deal with.
Meek has offered that he spent upwards of $500,000 in research and development.
Meek was an engineer holding patents on a number of devices. I would state that I believe it IS the same voice we hear on the tapes as Mueller. SO let me say again that I believe there is more evidence than not to conclude this was a wishful sham. No by Meek but instead, perpetrated on Meek.
I will absolutely try to make this available to the board. However, I was given this dvd by an individual who we are potentially looking to work with and I must protect his privacy as part of the program.
The spiricom section is but one in a number of stories re: ITC and EVP. This well done program features bits about Jurgenson and Raudive and the AA-EVP.
Very well done and well researched....
More to follow...
Warmest,
John D
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Jeff
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Very good John! First, we look for truth! With the truth in hand, we can, with all confidence, move on.
On the privacy of your friend, understood!
I had no idea that $500k was invested! I knew they had the best equipment on hand, but some of that, as I understood anyway, came from NASA's checkout library (for those reading, if you are employed by NASA, you can checkout equipment from the arsenal).
As far as voice is concerned, the modulated mixed tones are all I hear. So let me do some educated thinking:
1) If the antennas were actually enclosed in a Faraday enclosure, then no radio could modulate the RF. We know that.
2) If the device was constructed as shown by the Spiricom flow chart, then the device would be scientifically solid, and immune to exterior RF.
3) And here's the kicker: If there was no RF, and the tones were modulated by direct audio mixing, then we have been deceived.
Well, let's be patient, and let this unfold. One way or another, we will find the truth!
Again, good work there, John!
Best,
Jeff
Last edited on Feb 21st, 2008 07:38 PM by Jeff |
Jeff
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One last comment, John, is about the scientific facts of the Spiricom Technical Manual (I hope you have read it). I have to, again, insist the documentation (very long, and detailed) is true; even to the point that the researchers openly offered their doubts on various points of the work they were doing.
Their documentation was not the work of a deceiver. A deciever would not make such an effort, not to mention such a depth of knowledge, to compose such a work.
They even went so far as to suggest "what if"... And they admitted, in the documentation, that they were quite uncertain about the results of the "what if".
This is the work of a good scientific approach to, really anything.
Research; documentation; laboratory testing; laboratory results; and documentation of the results makes for good science (research).
This is the way things are; and certainly be done.
John, I offer these thoughts to keep ourselves (that means everyone researching) on the right track.
Regardless of your findings on the recordings, I still believe in the Spiricom documentation. That work was not; could not; be the work of some person(s) that were attempting to deceive.
Respectfully,
Jeff
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Notemanz
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Jeff,
Yes, I believe I have the proper technical manual. However, I would love to make sure of this. The one I have is the one available as part of the CD recordings I bought. It is written by George and has the Metascience heading on the front.
I hope I do have all the proper booklets. I do agree that I believe this is right path to follow.
By all means we all must believe what we think is the truth. We must however, (opinion here) use our common sense also. The fact that this work has never been successfully duplicated should speak volumes as to what to believe and what not to believe.
I know you'd agree, the scientific method requires duplication of results, in a controlled setting in order to "proove" the hypothesis.
You Jeff possess all the technical knowledge that we need, yet you yourself have encountered some difficulties duplicating the system. My fervent hope is that you or one of our comrades here can duplicate the system. It's what we're all hoping for.
Till that time, I'm afraid I have to go on what I see... And what I see with Spiricom is unsettling and questionable.
I will attempt to post the footage of SPiricom and the exchange between Mueller and O'neill re: video taping. I can't come up with a reasonable explanation as to why Mueller would be so offended by the video tape. It flies in the face of everything they were trying to do.
Again, my conclusion stands, that there was trickery here. Although I also agree with you that the idea is sound, but did it really work?
This is the question we continue to try and solve.
Best,
John D
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Jeff
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Very well, John. I look forward to your post!
Jeff
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Notemanz
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Here we go gang. I'm going to post 4 clips that are from the SPiricom Feature.
They speak for themselves but I will post what the fourth clip says as they had these onscreen to help hear.
I'm trying to figure out the best way to post Video but for now, here's the audio portion.
Attachment: SpiricomClip1.mp3 (Downloaded 1792 times)
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Notemanz
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Clip 2
Attachment: SpirClip2.mp3 (Downloaded 1254 times)
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Notemanz
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Clip 3
Attachment: SPirClip3.mp3 (Downloaded 1278 times)
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Notemanz
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Clip 4
The last exchange on this clip:
Mueller: "Turn that damn camera off or this conversation is at an end...Do you understand me William?"
Attachment: SpirClip4.mp3 (Downloaded 1222 times)
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Notemanz
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More clips of the program to follow!
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Notemanz
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Clip 5 part 1. Sarah Estep comments
Attachment: SpiricomSarahClip5.mp3 (Downloaded 1009 times)
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Notemanz
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Clip 6
Conclusion Of Estep Interview
Attachment: SpiricomSarahClip6.mp3 (Downloaded 1095 times)
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Notemanz
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I'll do my best to post the video. I present these as fodder for much thought as to the whether Spiricom worked or not.
My opinion at this point hasn't changed in that I believe unfortunately, that it did not in fact work, but was a fraud perpetrated on George.
Until we have a wrokable system, this is my opinion as of now...
Hopefully, this will add to the background archival information of Spiricom.
John D
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TT
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John,
How large is the video file? Will it need cut down for a more managable length?
If so, I can cut it into parts and can either send it back to you or post it on youtube or my personal web space and we can link it back to here.
I have the programs if you need to edit the video. I can send you any of those as well. However, general disclaimer, any full version program that I send you is for evaluation only and must be deleted from your system. ;) Of course I would have no way of knowing if you kept it for further use. <cough>
I am rather interested myself in seeing the expressions of the people as they comment. Body language usually tells a much greater tale then the spoken word.
Best,
Toby
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Notemanz
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Toby,
Would love to send but, I've been asked to not share the video as it has a rather long part profiling someone that has asked me not to share with the public yet.
Let me see if I can do it on my end and I so appreciate your offer. If I run into trouble I'll PM you and we can work it out...
Weirdly, the show is not on youtube! I couldn't find it there...
Stay tuned!
JD
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TT
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No worries at all John. The offer is still available if you need any software to assist with the editing. My forte is the computers not in the techinical details. I leave that to all of you much smarter then myself.
Toby
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Estee
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Notemanz wrote: Clip 4
The last exchange on this clip:
Mueller: "Turn that damn camera off or this conversation is at an end...Do you understand me William?"
The part that's saying "Turn the damn camera off or this conversation is at an end' is very clear though it helps to have an interpretation of it before-hand to be able to hear that. It would have taken me much longer to decipher that on my own especially because the voice is so much in the background.
But after that part -- I'm hearing "please don't do that William" -- not,
"Do you understand me William?".
At any rate, it would be nice to be able to duplicate Spircom to see if one can get the same results -- not so much in their clarity as many of us get such clear evp once in while already but to be able to get such long sentences like this is absolutely amazing! Of course it goes without saying that being able to converse in "Real Time" with our contacts would be wonderful! I've been experimenting with DC6 and have been getting some very interesting results with that. Will post that information in one of the DC threads already started up on this software.
Notemanz -- Thanks for posting those clips!!
Wanted to also add that I do think it's possible to duplicate those results Meek and O'Neil .... just have to keep trying. Just because it's not been done yet does not mean that won't eventually happen. Afterall, there are so few people out there experimenting in this area but I'm confident that evenutally we may hit on the right combo's!!
Last edited on Feb 28th, 2008 07:46 AM by
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Notemanz
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Thanks Estee glad these are of interest. The program captioned the dialogue between Mueller and O'neil. I believe this is from the tapes themselves which were recording simultaneously. It does say what I posted and I hope to post the vid so members can see for themselves. Really, really odd that Mueller would react like this. No explanation really...
I agree that while I doubt Spircom's validity, I feel that they were on the right path. I suspect that O'neill after 3 years of trying and getting nowhere may well have decided to "make the thing seem to work." Not maliciously perhaps, but maybe simply to please George who had invested so much money and time into the affair.
I'll have my system up soon as I'm just waiting for the lab table. The thing is, we really have many of the same components readily available now. Much easier in my opinion than back then. I've simply modified my system from the Mark IV. Let's see what we get if anything.... Using FM send and receive units mixed with tones, noise reduction etc... etc...
It will be a closed system...
Stay tuned,
John D
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Estee
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Notemanz wrote: Thanks Estee glad these are of interest. The program captioned the dialogue between Mueller and O'neil. I believe this is from the tapes themselves which were recording simultaneously. It does say what I posted and I hope to post the vid so members can see for themselves. Really, really odd that Mueller would react like this. No explanation really...
I agree that while I doubt Spircom's validity, I feel that they were on the right path. I suspect that O'neill after 3 years of trying and getting nowhere may well have decided to "make the thing seem to work." Not maliciously perhaps, but maybe simply to please George who had invested so much money and time into the affair.
I'll have my system up soon as I'm just waiting for the lab table. The thing is, we really have many of the same components readily available now. Much easier in my opinion than back then. I've simply modified my system from the Mark IV. Let's see what we get if anything.... Using FM send and receive units mixed with tones, noise reduction etc... etc...
It will be a closed system...
Stay tuned,
John D
I prefer to just keep an open mind about O'Neil but good to see that those who have doubts about him, like yourself, are still very interested in setting things up to see if such a system can produce successful results. I believe it can! I'm looking forward to seeing what you've come up with! This is very exciting!!
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Jeff
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Notemanz wroteLet's see what we get if anything.... Using FM send and receive units mixed with tones, noise reduction etc.
Stay tuned,
John D
Interesting you are considering using FM John. I had thought about that but then I had to stop and wonder: To modulate FM, the Spirit would have to modulate the frequency of the carrier wave. How in the world could that happen? I can easily see AM, or better yet, Single Side Band (SSB) using the mixed tones as the Beat Frequency Oscillator (BFO). These modes are easily modulated, and the carrier wave does not change frequency.
Since Spirit does not speak acoustically, (if they did, we wouldn't need Spiricom, now would we?), it still lies true to the assumption that Spirit impingment happens at the RF energy level.
One thing you might try is this: Break into the transmitter modulator circuit, and separate the input from the pre-amp. Ground the pre-amp output with a 1000 ohm resistor to keep it from running away into self-oscillation, or worse. Place a voltage-controlled amplifier circuit into the modulator input. Drive the voltage-controlled amp with a wireless mic device. Perhaps that would bring all formats together for results.
Also, remember your antennae must reside inside the Faraday enclosure. Otherwise it can only be assumed you have received a radio station of some sort.
Last thing, for all experimenters that plan to use RF: Unless the antennae are enclosed, you will be transmitting RF into the the atmosphere. The FCC will come to visit you, and they will not be smiling!
1st offence: They confiscate your gear, give you a warning, and tell all news media about criminal activity.
2nd offence: $10,000 fine and possible imprisonment.
Friends, I am not trying to sound heavy-handed here. I just don't want anyone to get into trouble!
Oh! and John, thanks for posting those clips!!
Blessings!
Jeff
Last edited on Feb 28th, 2008 05:59 PM by Jeff |
Notemanz
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Thanks Jeff! Points well taken! Absolutely will be in faraday enclosure.... I'm only going with FM wireless at the moment because of the readily available hardware.
Will proceed with caution as yes I have ham radio friends that have mentioned the FCC situation.
Will keep all informed of progress and am glad you found the clips of interest. I certainly did also!
Warmly,
John D
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Jeff
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Most welcome John. Hey, if you could use some Faraday design, I would be happy to help! Just post your frequency of operation. 
BTW, I am a ham operator; and a licensed examiner for the ham FCC tests.
All the best!
Jeff
Last edited on Feb 28th, 2008 06:47 PM by Jeff |
Notemanz
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Will do Thanks Jeff. We're close to having the whole thing up and running. Will interface with you and appreciate the help!
John D
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yzzzguy
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I knew about the Spiricom video clip (between O'Neil/Mueller) over 2 years ago (it's mentioned early in JG Fuller's "The Ghost of 29 Megacycles") but was unable to obtain a copy from the person who has the original. Then I found out about this program (i.e. "Voices of the Dead") around April or May of last year and got a copy around late June.
DMP (David Monaghan Productions) does not have copies for sale nor does Channel 4 (at first the researcher at Channel 4 denied there was any such program until a senior researcher took down the info I pointed to...yeesh).
If you're interested in viewing the script - DMP has it posted at their website (see link below).
http://www.dmptv.co.uk/pro/voices/index.htm
There is 1 glaring mistake made: the first organized research into EVP occurred in the US in 1956 by Attilla ("Art" to his friends) Von Szalay and Raymond Bayless. I located the apartment they rented for this purpose but haven't been inside yet. Of course - things have changed drastically in 50 years and it is butted up against a very busy Starbucks!
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Slider2732
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The reason for not filming could have other roots. Our Forum owner Keith has said that as much as the operating principles of Spiricom and other devices are important to this board, collaborations within the spiritual journey are of equal importance. From that understanding, it can be seen that Mueller may have been helping to promote the fact of spirit interaction for Meek and O'neill, for those guys and a small circle of friends.
The research would have profound implications for religion and the ways every person on the planet may view the after-life. Limiting the success may have been planned....plus the UK is notorious for underwhelming at every opportunity, not just with TV.
I can understand that it was not Dr. Mueller's place to create something that would alter a world view! Perhaps the fact that electronic engineering is something most people don't have an interest in would have proven to be the limit factor of the awareness envisaged.
I do see the research similarly to that of Edison though, he wouldn't have imagined an iPhone. Einstein didn't entertain thoughts on nuclear bombs being a practical possibility and the list probably goes on and on.
Suffice to say, for spiritual matters, each person has their own take on fact or fiction and original arguments can fuel the later inquiring mind for changes.
With Spiricom, a new direction was hinted at and invested in heavily. Whether O'neill wished to keep a job or that the research did provide real results, is for us to work out, but isn't the whole story of our individual interests.
Perhaps the limit is placed by the dynamics within a self journey and isn't for a wider audience.
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Notemanz
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Slider, you've raised some important philosophic issues. I few thoughts on your comments...
Edison and Marconi and Tesla et al were men of science and reason. They understood that results and data must be obtained through experimentation and duplication. Mueller being a man of science understood this certainly. It would not be in keeping with his personality nor his efforts to better the system, to want anonimity. This just makes no sense.
Meek's own deeply held desire, was to bring this technology to the world in order to foster a new paradigm transforming the world for the better. This was his calling, to prove the immortatlity of the soul and that "there is no death."
He himself must've known that in order to realize his dream, he would have to prove beyond a doubt that his device was in fact real. Sadly, he couldnt do this due, in my opinion, to flawed protocol and un-verifiable results. O'neill himself was perhaps a brilliant man, yet, the results he obtained must be carefully scrutinized.
The fact that all communication stopped near the moment that Meek wanted to video tape, is highly suspicious.
No-one to date has successfully duplicated the results. So, while I agree that the journeys of spirit are of utmost impotance, the science is also of utmost importance.
Truly, Meek's dream is alive and well. In truth, a breakthrough in this field that we entertain ourselves in, would be revolutionary and in many ways, confirm that which religion has said for millenia: that we are immortal beings and, as Meek said: "There is no Death."
I so glad that we have this forum to discuss matters of such import.
Best,
John D
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Slider2732
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I quite agree...to discuss with people that actually write down their thoughts is one big draw to me with the forum. In such a way, I think we write our research from both a science area and theology area. The documenting becomes more than data sheets.
Whether a higher force keeps all of this in some kind of check is a thought. The results may have been intentionally self falsed and O'neill may have wished to hide such clues. Though he would wish for the acclaim, all existence proof positive of results that can be replicated, may be somehow limited. Kind of makes sense, but is too mystical for my liking lol.
It's a bit like Da Vinci's tank design, where the cogs obviously run the wrong way to prevent motion. You'd only make that realisation however, with knowledge of cogs.
O'neill may be the guilty party in a ruse, but for good reason. Mueller may have wished for the camera to be switched off because he would wish no further part in such actions. But, Mueller himself, as a scientist and wishing to further the build for everyone to enjoy may have learnt something of the laws of spirit. He would, after all, be moving to the next plane at some point and could only do so when certain evolvements of spirit had taken place.
It's not something I necessarily take as fact, or even perhaps as a guideline of understanding...though is often reported by others.
This leads me to wondering about a change in part of the circuit.
O'neill might well have gained evidence for himself of the afterlife and limited the design. While the circuit design makes sense (Jeff is a trusted source for that side too), could there be an area of intentional change, as Da Vinci saw fit to introduce ?
Last edited on Mar 12th, 2008 12:06 PM by Slider2732 |
Notemanz
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Very interesting indeed! However, if O'neill wished to not divulge the "real" design, he would be undermining all that his benefactor dreamed of. It was Meek that took the heat and subsequently was not taken seriously. To me, we must question motives. If O'neill was only interested in contact for himself and a select group, why have the circus sideshow that was the press conference?
Mueller if in spirit a compassionate being, might've have considered the consequences for Meek and in fact, why wouldn't he have explained all to Meek and O'neill before putting on the "show" for the world to see.
Mueller was incredibly detailed on everything but the most important thing: whether or not this was proper to share this with the world.
The above assumes that Spiricom was real, which I personally do not assume.
I hope that beings from other planes have a sense of compassion for us mere mortals. Mueller's supposed attitude strikes me as highly questionable if in fact, he was really there....
Great thread!
Warmly,
John D
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Slider2732
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I can entertain a simple notion that fixes things. O'neill's quietness during the filming and Muellers seeming difference in speech in the broadcast (which I haven't seen), could be because Mueller was actually in contact, but not with the exact method O'neill was going to demonstrate. His voice was a taped thing and although O'neill used much of the electronics, wasn't fully the real deal (or reel deal lol).
All can be likened to the Wizard of Oz.
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Notemanz
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LOL Excellent concept!! great stuff Slider... I feel though that we can and will make the Spiricom a reality. We just need to keep up the effort and I know we'll get there!
Best,
John D
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TT
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Thought about this at length for some time as to the validity of Spiricom.
Just thought I would throw a few points in here as well as I find the general discussion quite interesting.
Things we "assume" are true as it is documented fact for us:
We know there is an afterlife as we have facilitated contact for ourselves.
We know that upwards of $500,000 was spent on making this a reality.
We know that Mueller and O'neil had a genuine desire to succeed.
(I cannot see throwing away that money and anothers reputation on a farce.)
What we cannot prove or disprove:
That Spiricom's results were legitimate.
Taking just those few points I tend to feel that with most undertakings of this magnitude there are normally deadlines to meet.(No pun intended)
Could O'Neil have possibly fabricated results to give Mueller to justify more money or the money already spent?
Could the spirits have declined to be a part of this as they feel the world is not ready for something of this magnitude? Which to me, seems logical as I find it difficult to get straight answers from them myself at times.
With the billionaires around every corner these days and the updated technology available why hasn't anyone developed something more then Spiricom?
Just a few thoughts as I simply feel that the world is not ready for something of this magnitude. That is however for another philosophical discussion.
Good stuff.
Toby
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yzzzguy
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The reason that Mueller wanted the videotape to be stopped was much more mundane than y'all think.
Check out the transcript of the cassette tape that Keith has posted...particularly pages 15 and 16.
http://www.itcbridge.com/supplement/cassette/spiricom/spiricomtranscript.pdf
Excerpt 16 is the exact portion shown on the Spiricom video clip. Read what Meek said below that:
"...
We have stated that the mind, memory banks and personality survive
death of the physical body. A facet of Dr. Mueller's personality—one of
which was of value in managing large and important research projects
—clearly showed in the tone of his voice when requesting that the camera
and sound be turned off so that he could make some highly personal
statements to William..."
I believe those "highly personal statements" were some more phone numbers that Mueller wanted O'Neil (and/or the Metascience Foundation members) to check out.
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yzzzguy
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Two more items:
- I've seen nothing in either Fuller's book nor in the Metascience Foundation documents (or the cassette tape) that stated that O'Neil didn't want to be photographed from the front either alone or when working with the Spiricom. That I think is unsubstantiated rumor.
- I've seen nothing in TGO29M/Metascience Foundation documents to indicate that O'Neil used the Spiricom in a screened-room/Faraday cage. Again - unsubstantiated rumor.
Doug from Ghostly Talk has said to me both on the air and in person that he had evidence that the Spiricom was used in a Faraday cage but he's never shown that to me.
Not only that but the dimensions of the device would have made a cage very difficult to build on O'Neil's tiny income. Plus - the audio excerpt of O'Neil having to run upstairs to talk to Mueller has no sound of a door (either solid or just a frame with mesh) opening/closing which he would have had to maintain integrity of the cage.
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Notemanz
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Toby,
If I may, I'll comment on your thoughts below....
Thought about this at length for some time as to the validity of Spiricom.
Just thought I would throw a few points in here as well as I find the general discussion quite interesting.
Things we "assume" are true as it is documented fact for us:
We know there is an afterlife as we have facilitated contact for ourselves.
There is an abundant amount of anecdotal evidence that seems to support the hypothesis of continuance of consciousness.
We know that upwards of $500,000 was spent on making this a reality.
Yes, this is the amount reported.
We know that Mueller and O'neil had a genuine desire to succeed.
We know that Meek had a desire to succeed. We do not really know O'neill's motivations as there is very little data directly attributed to him. We know how Meek felt about him, but very little info from O'Neill himself. Mueller is the discarnate entity (supposed) so it's hard to judge "his" motivations.
(I cannot see throwing away that money and anothers reputation on a farce.)
We must consider that Meek was a brilliant dreamer who envisioned a world changed by the revelation of continuance of life. Through his books and writings and certainly press conference we know what he envisioned. We do not know with certainty that O'neill was as motivated. In truth, the Spiricom did not start working until about 2 years of trial and error. We know that O'neill was subsidized by Meek. I can see a scenario where-by O'neill, frustrated by lack of progress, may have decided to make the system seem to work FOR Meek. This could've started innocently enough, with O'Neill simply wanting to give Meek what he wanted. The whole thing might've gotten out of hand when Meek, thrilled with a breakthrough, decided to mount the press conference.
O'Neil, in this hypothetical, would then just have to go along for the ride perhaps not having the heart to tell Meek that alas the results were not real.
I've come to this opinion based on my own study of the system and the writings of Meek and of course through the reading of Ghost of 29.....
The final straw for me has been the viewing of the British documentary that features the video footage of O'neiil in front of the system being berrated by the ghost of Mueller to "Turn off that damn recorder".... For which no logical explanation exists in my mind at this time.
What we cannot prove or disprove:
That Spiricom's results were legitimate.
Here I beg to differ. We can apply the scientific method. Results must hold up under peer review and duplication of protocol. Since no successful duplication has occurred in the 25 years since SPiricom, we might make a reasoned assumption that Occam's law applies. The simplest explanation for me at this point is that the system did not work and that is why no demonstrable data has arisen to hint at the Spiricom's validity. I say this with regret and hope. I believe that the Spiricom was headed in the right direction and we as the next generation may indeed create the breakthrough.
Taking just those few points I tend to feel that with most undertakings of this magnitude there are normally deadlines to meet.(No pun intended)
Could O'Neil have possibly fabricated results to give Mueller to justify more money or the money already spent?
I would answer Yes...O'Neill could've been in it for the money.
Could the spirits have declined to be a part of this as they feel the world is not ready for something of this magnitude? Which to me, seems logical as I find it difficult to get straight answers from them myself at times.
Great question that I've grappled with. My own opinion is that this work (EVP) hints at the existence of a creator and I therefore hope the He/She blesses the work that we may be able to eventually prove His/Her existance to the physical dimension. Opinion also, is that there may be many levels of consciousness. We in our EVP's may be getting only the "lower ends" meaning the entities closest to our physical realm. The theory goes that these "lower enders" may indeed not be allowed or willing to give us much pertinent information.
I've noticed I get more cogent information from my Staticom recordings than my hand held EVP recordings. Don't know why, other than I may be connecting to "higher ups" using the more sophisticated technology.
With the billionaires around every corner these days and the updated technology available why hasn't anyone developed something more then Spiricom?
Great question!! You may be interested in learning that there are many, many organizations out there working on this. One of the biggest is Sony. They had an active and fully funded PSI lab until a few years ago. They amassed an abundance of data that has not yet seen the light of day. My guess is that a "soul phone" may indeed be around the corner. I'm involved at this moment with funding efforts....Stay tuned!!
Just a few thoughts as I simply feel that the world is not ready for something of this magnitude. That is however for another philosophical discussion.
I believe we are ready.... Witness the I-Phone, particle accelerators, wireless internet!!! I'm not being flippant. I think we're closer than some may believe. Witness Sony's criptique comments on their own research....They seem to indicate it may be easier than first thought to make contact... Heck, the Vatican itself had no problem with the subject of EVP. I surmise the only folks that might have a big problem might be Atheists!
Thanks for raising some great questions Toby!
Warmly,
John
Good stuff.
Toby
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Slider2732
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A personal statement...it can be imagined the Faraday cage wasn't part of the mix and added as an appeasement of critics. While noone was around they may well have used one, but probably didn't. After all, from Jurgenson onward to the present day, noone uses a Faraday cage while recording for EVP. I think it more likely to be something invested in if the system seemed to work without one. Putting up such a large structure for the equipment size would have been prudent and great for science, but he had to show the thing could receive contact without one first ?
A kind of head game with a benefactor and a catch 22.
Re the billionaires you mention Toby...great point and you'd think that certain flamboyant types may have an interest. Have they been approached ? 
Main thing is that most inventions come from garden sheds. When shown to work, in the presence of an investor and when patents are at least applied for, that seems to be the route of financing a commercial product to repay the investor. That's pretty much the possible story with us. But, do we want a product ? and there lies a big question.
The highly personal statements could be phone numbers or that his trouser fly was undone lol. Could be a good few good reasons and will probably always be a problem area.
I totally agree with a list of facts being made. To function as a checklist perhaps. If we get one running and telephone numbers come forward, they would be the type of sounds which would have to be clearly audible in themselves.
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Notemanz
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To your question Slider, Yes these types have and are being approached. Active research is occurring quietly.
As to the "private info" Meek alluded to. Perhaps it was this are there could be other explanations. We may never know in what context the exchange was recorded...
Good points all!!
John D
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TT
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John,
Excellent points. I believe my tendency is to drift into the philosophical sense.
We are the "babies" if you will, in the spiritual sense. In this life we are learning to crawl. In the next walk and so on.
With the knowledge of all the great minds that has passed over to the other side with the infinite wisdom that follows the chain to the top being the creator, why then through the EVPs has the information on how better to communicate not been passed down to us?
I know others have received advice on how to improve hearing the EVPs. I was lucky enough to be the recipient of one EVP that told me a particular setting in Audacity and it worked wonders for me being able to hear better. With knowledge of the programs and equipment we are using why is it not more forthcoming of a schematic or some such?
This is what leads me to believe that they feel we are not ready for a device such as Spiricom. If we were why not just assist us in creating it? They know their own realm better then we do. They have a better understanding of the frequencies and anomalies that hinder us from progressing further.
Better yet, think of the implications for the world if it would be proven. I do not see a utopian society after that. We will obviously still have our debunkers that will not believe ituntil they get to the other side. We have a multitude of religious zealots who would not be accepting of the infidels trickster machines claiming to speak to spirits. Leaving the largest for last, catholics do not believe in communicating with spirits. They believe we are conversing with evil entities and is the work of the devil.
Taking it to an economic stand point. A device is made that does have two-way communication. As Slider said, patents would be held, reverse engineering, minor tweaks and we then have a new race between Sony, Toshiba and Microsoft on who can develop a better Spiricom. Of course all of the costs are passed on to the consumer with this being after they play out a year or two of demand just like personal computers.
Until the next Generation X who never listened to their parents while their parents were living now do not bother listening to them when they pass. A fad for some, a novelty for others and of course the major purchasers are those getting up in age who feel that they need to find their spirituality because their own mortality set in.
Rather cynical I know. Maybe I just have a lower opinion of humanity. Open any newspaper or watch any station and it is all about money. From commercials to ratings to selling news. I still hold firm to the belief that the world is a far cry away from being ready to accept a more spiritual world through communication with the other side.
All of your points are very thought provoking and am enjoying the discussion emmensely. One thing I neglected to say though is when you do succeed please let us be the first to know. ;)
Best,
Toby
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Notemanz
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Understand where you're coming from Toby for sure. We all have our own opinions as to how this work might affect the physical world.
Who knows what ramifications might ensue when a device is perfected. No-one really knows at this point.
One clarification I'd offer re: religious attitude. I'm a Catholic and I work with EVP. In the 50's a priest by the name of Fr. Crenneti stumbled upon an early evp while doing a wire recording. He was perplexed and astonished to hear his father's voice speaking to him.
Make a long story short, this priest brought the recording to the Holy See and ultimately to the Pope. The Pope (Pius the??) examined the data and found himself approving of the the priest's work. It was thought that anything that proves the existence of God was a good thing. It was after all simply proving what the church had said for 2000 years.
As far as talking to spirits....LOL many priests will tell you privately that spirits do indeed exist although the church recommends not listening to them. It makes reference in the New Testament also and advises not to speak to the spirits as they will only try and deceive... (LOL SOmething like that...)
I relate this because I feel there are some mis-conceptions about organized religion and those of the faith. I can't speak for all certainly, but I bet that many poeple of faith would welcome the scientific proof of an after-life. There is official dogma and of course, there is the day to day truth.... I'm not here to defend Catholics but being one, I can assure you the the long tradition of brilliant thinkers; scientists and academicians in the faith is alive and well. Heck did you know that the Big Bang theory was from a Catholic priest named Le Matre? Most priests I know will admit to some acceptance of spirits and the like.
As to your excellent questions... Yes, why don't they just tell us how to do it?? I agree that I wish they would too but perhaps it's we that must find it for ourselves. Much like faith must be reconciled only in the human heart.
I've been pondering the great wealth of brilliance that is not accessible to us on this plane and how very sad this is. Perhaps, as you said so well, we must learn to walk first and our feeble human brain is in-capable of comprehending the true reality of it all.....
Of course they'll always be the "doubting Thomases"... But this won't dissuade us I bet!
You're right...I don't think Utopia is possible here on this plane. But it would be just awesome to speak with Grandma or Grandpa again...
We must dream and not assume... We must embrace the mystery and try to make sense of it all.
Who knows where it will lead us, but, the possibility of cross the veil communication beckons.
Till next thoughts! LOL
John
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Slider2732
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This little discussion is becoming what we probably all need every now and again..thrash out some aims and state some opinions. As a newbie to Spiricom, my input is to get to know such things about fellow posters, as well as get a better understanding of the original pioneers of the initial post. Shame there's no pub and beers going on...thanks all for this great thread.
I often wonder about a couple of things.
How many times do you see a sceptic debunking the heck out of spirit contact and then how often has that person never even sat down with a tape recorder and tried it ?
For the church, if communicating with the deceased is so terrible, what's with praying ? isn't that trying for communication with a spirit being ?
Not wishing to trivialise the whole thing, but from childhood i've imagined the pointing of the hands upward and together in prayer as like forming an aerial.
As luck would have it, the limiter is in place for a bonafide 100% working Spiricom type device. It's the past history of life and experiences. All the charlatans, the false messengers, the ill informed, they all have created a scepticism that real studies may utilise for the good of those who understand the technology. People breaking from the standard methods of tipping the hat toward the creator on a Sunday, may follow a path that finds the device. Perhaps that is its purpose. If ya really wanna know, put these headphones on.
Different religions believe different things. There is one truth and yet every new church or old one has different ways of showing they collectively believe something different.
Garden shed soldering iron wealders are not understood by even the paranormal community at large, so, we have a situation where acceptance would meet many barriers even with tech savvy ghost hunters.
All of this would place a significant road block on device acceptance.
...but...could enable a searching mind, probably in their mid years to give such a device a shot.
I seemed to mis-read your last post John, sorry about that. Sony bosses will want something like they wanted the Walkman. I believe the story is that a boss walked into the R&D department with a cassette case and said he wanted a portable tape player. The engineers asked what kind of design and sizing and the boss put the case on the table ! A few months later something very similar hit the market.
Hmm...the Playstation 4, with 2 player abilities for historical battles, actually playing against the great generals. Featuring a Realm Engine, menu settings for which plane of existence you wish to interact with.
Aside from the fun thoughts, the actual research may have been far more in depth and shown to have resulted in repeatable contact. We don't know that Sony got anywhere, but, as TT implies, the timing may just not be right, Sony might be sitting on the product right now.
I mean, here's something of a thought too, for our Western minds. The Japanese and some consumer life shaping products.
Walkman - Sony
VHS VCR - JVC
Space Invaders - Taito
Pac-man - Namco
Roland TR-909 drum machine (practically ALL 90's and beyond dance music)
Yamaha DX7/Korg M1/Roland D50 (digital keyboard machines to launch the above)
Roland TB-303 (dinky little box that gave anti-social, huge scene, Acid House)
Finally (for now lol), did lots of boffins in Japanese companies search far and wide for inspiration ? No, Pac-Man was inspired by a missing pizza slice and a lot of the Roland music gear came from one guy Tadao Kikumoto. Especially for the music market, the Japanese seemingly understood what we wanted before we did, the same may all apply for spirit contact and noise shaping 
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.
.
What's Steve Jobs phone number ? lol
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Notemanz
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I agree Slider very stimulating!
Why should we care about what anyone else thinks about this work? I for one don't care. For me, it's a personal quest.
One of the points that I was trying to make above is that there seems to be (in some Para-normal circles) a seemingly built in bias against religion and those who have a belief system. I could be wrong, and I apologize if this raise any hackles as i don't mean to.
It's just that I've had a number of people interested in this work, at times, express an opinion that somehow, people of faith won't accept the findings. I've found quite the opposite when discussing this subject with both clergy and those who have a belief system no matter what the faith.
I would say that to me, the work we do here in fact will strengthen and prove that there is an after-life and ultimately perhaps, a creator. For me there is no "battle-field" of concepts there is only truth.
LOL you're right... Whether SOny is just sitting on "the box" or not is a fun thing to ponder. Who knows...
We all share the common goal: to create a working "spiricom". What happens after that, no-one knows. This concern certainly didn't stop others though, and I say we plow ahead and create the device!
I agree this is a great discussion!
Warmest,
John D
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TT
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John,
It is amusing to see however different people of course have different view points. The pastor I spoke with was very open-minded and saw a lot of similarities between the EVPs and praying in general. Talking with members of his congregation though they immediately put up a wall saying that it was not acceptable.
Interesting to say the least that individuals that even share the same beliefs fundamentally still differ on what is an acceptable practice. I strongly believe we will find the same to be true when Spiricom 2 is developed.
I still view us as less then perfect in that some need their egos messaged. See it frequently even in the EVP community. People want the official recognition and monetary gain associated with a great creation.
It is why I feel those on the other side may believe we are not ready for it here yet.
Now the chaos factor is in freewill. However, if those of the upper realms choose not to communicate with us because they do not believe we are ready does that mean those on the earthbound plane would not communicate either? I believe quite the opposite. This presents the relevant question though of what would people experience through their communications with the negative energies?
Is food for thought if nothing else as we can only speculate. Playing devil's advocate of sorts. Pun intended there. =)
My personal feelings are that I believe Spiricom would be a substantial benefit for all of mankind. It will still all revolve around what they feel we should know. After all, being given the results is quite different than experiencing the journey on our own finding them for ourselves.
Slider, unfortunately if the Japanese and Sony do have a model I doubt it would be called Spiricom though, possibly the Buddhacom 3000. That would create quite a stir don't you think? ;)
Great points of discussion to both. I wonder if anyone else has an opinion?
Best,
Toby
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yzzzguy
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Here is a (poorly made) photo of Bill O'Neil standing in front of the Spiricom. This is the best I can provide as I do not have the original. It was projected from a slide onto a projection screen and you can see the brick wall of the auditorium to the right. The videographer did a poor job of centering the screen and focusing. Sorry.
Attached Image (viewed 918 times):
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yzzzguy
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And here is a still frame from one of the O'Neil/Spiricom videos. Compare this photo with one in the next post.
Attached Image (viewed 690 times):
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yzzzguy
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This photo of O'Neil using the Spiricom is also a frame grab from a video and can be found on Mark Macy's World ITC web site. Note that the photo is black and white AND taken from a different angle than the frame grab I posted previously. I'm very certain this shows it is from a DIFFERENT VIDEO clip from what I have.
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Slider2732
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I thought the first pic was an ITC capture hehe
LMAO at Bhuddacom 3000 
Thanks for those pics guys.
Ya know though...game engines could harbour a real shift in mental awareness for a clued up electronics giant like Sony. My wife's daughter just aquired Smash Bros for the Nintendo Wii. Seen the backdrops on that game ? so spiritual in places and so thought provoking. But, what is the game about ? kicking oldy worldy video game opponents to smithereens. It has Zelda and Mario and lots of others, set to different punch up scenarios BUT with breathtaking backgrounds that don't suit the game..in my opinion.
Shaping of young minds, impressionable minds, is an area of huge strategic importance for console manufacturers. Get them thinking a certain way, at a certain age, and those thoughts stay. Personally, I have half a dozen arcade machines in my garage and a building amount of music electronics....cos thems what shaped my mind back in the 80's.
If a company such as Sony can get the 'real deal', a situation O'neill may have found himself deep within, then that shaping can bring a lot of cash.
THAT is a firmly rooted society trick however, the cash incentive and I totally believe that anyone venturing down that route will encounter the 'natural limiter'. If it's God or anyone else who introduces it, I think that's how this would go. My preference of opinion, is for the actualities of understanding to lie with the point of spiritual growth. Money driven folks will never understand the reasonings behind the concepts and therefore would never learn to appreciate the subtleties of spirit communication. To hide a larger understanding is a limiter in spiritual growth.
I can see why Sony shelved research
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Notemanz
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Great pics!
Slider, had a little problem comprehending that last post but one thing I can tell you is that Sony had some success so I wouldn't assume that they shelved the program due to lack of positive results.
Many, many breakthroughs in science have occurred and been encouraged by financial gain. Reference J.P Morgan et al. So I would certainly not discount the financial implications and in fact would think them a great motivator in some circles.
If we are to prove that spiricom was real we must duplicate the results. Here's to that day!
Best,
John D
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Slider2732
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Ah right, I do tend to rattle on!
Well the theme being that comprehension of the spirit interactivity, the gravity of it all, might be lost on formative minds.
While game systems are generally targeted at teens, then inner growth could be seen to be a manipulation by concerned parents or religious figures.
Open research and stating clear aims, is how I believe the current projects can best serve a wider audience. Everyone knows where we're up to and what we're up to. Sony's research is unknown...which is a shame.
Yep, here's to the day !
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Keith Clark
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Hello all,
This a very active thread, full of many different ideas and opinions. It will be closely monitored, please continue to communicate in the manner in which you all have been doing so far.
There are several things that I would like to say:
Yzzzguy, you posted the above pictures - and by your own admission you state: "This photo of O'Neil using the Spiricom is also a frame grab from a video and can be found on Mark Macy's World ITC web site."
Please just link to the pictures on other websites - do not reproduce them here. Otherwise, acquire permission from the owner before you do.
John, if you post the video, please post it on Youtube and then link to it here. Given the subject matter, I think that would be best.
Now, I'll throw in my two cents worth 
1. The fact that Spiricom has not been duplicated does not indicate that it did not happen. If Bacci was the only one to experience two-way radio conversations, would that mean that it was not real because nobody else duplicated it?
2. Personally, I don't think anyone is going to prove or disprove Spiricom. The people that knew best are now on the spirit plane of existence.
3. In the clips provided above I did not hear Mueller tell William to turn the camera off. And even if that had been true, it proves nothing. It only provides for speculation.
4. Deep down, I feel that even if there was a possibility that Spiricom was not real (not my opinion at this time), it would not even matter. Look at the results that have come from it. Look at how many people dive into experiments believing that it is possible. And it is. And it will happen again. If Spiricom turned out to be false, it still led the world towards becoming open to the possibility of direct communication with those in spirit. And that will prove to be just as important.
Keith
Last edited on Mar 16th, 2008 05:53 PM by Keith Clark |
Notemanz
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Understood Keith. If I can post I'll do it through Youtube. On your post of the spiricom recordings' transcript, you'll hear the exchange as I posted between O'Neill and Mueller with Mueller telling O'Neil to "Turn of the D... Camera...."
Meek explains it away that this due to Mueller wanting to impart confidential info to O'Neil.
While yes we can only speculate why, the exchange did seem to occur.
Yes, great thread and hope we can continue to discuss the subject at hand.
Best,
John D
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Keith Clark
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Hi John,
I stand corrected. The .pdf file I posted is searchable, and it only took seconds to find the mentioned excerpt.
Keith
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TT
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I agree John.
Keith I hope we haven't caused any issues with our discussion.
I have enjoyed it emmensely as it has been very thought provoking and many great points and counter-points were given. Unlike quite a few other forums and threads I have read no ego trip statements. Only speculation and theories. Very refreshing to me personally.
Best,
Toby
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Keith Clark
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Nope, we're good so far.
Keith
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Notemanz
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I agree Toby! Refreshing for sure... Thanks for posting the PDF Keith very helpful!
Here's to success!!
John D
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Slider2732
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TT...I hope we HAVE caused some issues, but in a positive light
It's certainly made me think about the research in a new way. From almost passive curiosity to analysis then build ideas.
"If Spiricom turned out to be false, it still led the world towards becoming open to the possibility of direct communication with those in spirit. And that will prove to be just as important."
Yeah, that's how I see it Keith. I note the use of smoke in some of your research and that's been attacked often enough by armchair debunkers. Actually trying things proves a lot to the self and, in your case, some great results were obtained. Manipulations of naturally occurring environmental effects is on the same lines, with tones and waves and other areas of Spiricom. I believe we're shaping the very things that sceptics love to ridicule, while they totally miss the point about natural contact.
Such contact, i'm getting to believing, has happened since man was capable of thought and overly objectionable types merely hamper themselves with closed mindedness.
We might shape and tune for repeatable results, but all the while, it seems to be a case of removing the chance elements of spirit interaction.
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DavidR
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Hi Toby, you might find this web site of some interest where they have made contact via a TV set and cam-corder with images of spirit being shown. http://www.worlditc.org
Regards
David UK
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Notemanz
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Points well stated Keith. I have a question: Do we know of any documentation from other scientists that may have observed the system in use? Anecdotal writings would be of great help here.
I noticed the names of other scientists on the Meta-science advisory board but did any of these chaps review the data or observe the system while fubctioning?
Best,
John D
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TT
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David,
Thank you for posting the world-itc website. I have had it in favorites though for quite sometime. I still find it a valuable source of information and direct people interested in evp-itc there.
Thanks again.
Toby
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