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Great British Program re: Spiricom

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Posted: Mar 12th, 2008 08:29 PM

Notemanz
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Toby,

If I may, I'll comment on your thoughts below....

Thought about this at length for some time as to the validity of Spiricom.

Just thought I would throw a few points in here as well as I find the general discussion quite interesting.

Things we "assume" are true as it is documented fact for us:

We know there is an afterlife as we have facilitated contact for ourselves.

There is an abundant amount of anecdotal evidence that seems to support the hypothesis of continuance of consciousness.

We know that upwards of $500,000 was spent on making this a reality.

Yes, this is the amount reported.

We know that Mueller and O'neil had a genuine desire to succeed.

We know that Meek had a desire to succeed. We do not really know O'neill's motivations as there is very little data directly attributed to him. We know how Meek felt about him, but very little info from O'Neill himself. Mueller is the discarnate entity (supposed) so it's hard to judge "his" motivations.

(I cannot see throwing away that money and anothers reputation on a farce.)

We must consider that Meek was a brilliant dreamer who envisioned a world changed by the revelation of continuance of life. Through his books and writings and certainly press conference we know what he envisioned. We do not know with certainty that O'neill was as motivated. In truth, the Spiricom did not start working until about 2 years of trial and error. We know that O'neill was subsidized by Meek. I can see a scenario where-by O'neill, frustrated by lack of progress, may have decided to make the system seem to work FOR Meek. This could've started innocently enough, with O'Neill simply wanting to give Meek what he wanted. The whole thing might've gotten out of hand when Meek, thrilled with a breakthrough, decided to mount the press conference.

O'Neil, in this hypothetical, would then just have to go along for the ride perhaps not having the heart to tell Meek that alas the results were not real.

I've come to this opinion based on my own study of the system and the writings of Meek and of course through the reading of Ghost of 29.....

The final straw for me has been the viewing of the British documentary that features the video footage of O'neiil in front of the system being berrated by the ghost of Mueller to "Turn off that damn recorder".... For which no logical explanation exists in my mind at this time.

What we cannot prove or disprove:
That Spiricom's results were legitimate.

Here I beg to differ. We can apply the scientific method. Results must hold up under peer review and duplication of protocol. Since no successful duplication has occurred in the 25 years since SPiricom, we might make a reasoned assumption that Occam's law applies. The simplest explanation for me at this point is that the system did not work and that is why no demonstrable data has arisen to hint at the Spiricom's validity. I say this with regret and hope. I believe that the Spiricom was headed in the right direction and we as the next generation may indeed create the breakthrough.

Taking just those few points I tend to feel that with most undertakings of this magnitude there are normally deadlines to meet.(No pun intended)

Could O'Neil have possibly fabricated results to give Mueller to justify more money or the money already spent?

I would answer Yes...O'Neill could've been in it for the money.

Could the spirits have declined to be a part of this as they feel the world is not ready for something of this magnitude? Which to me, seems logical as I find it difficult to get straight answers from them myself at times.

Great question that I've grappled with. My own opinion is that this work (EVP) hints at the existence of a creator and I therefore hope the He/She blesses the work that we may be able to eventually prove His/Her existance to the physical dimension. Opinion also, is that there may be many levels of consciousness. We in our EVP's may be getting only the "lower ends" meaning the entities closest to our physical realm. The theory goes that these "lower enders" may indeed not be allowed or willing to give us much pertinent information.

I've noticed I get more cogent information from my Staticom recordings than my hand held EVP recordings. Don't know why, other than I may be connecting to "higher ups" using the more sophisticated technology.

With the billionaires around every corner these days and the updated technology available why hasn't anyone developed something more then Spiricom?

Great question!! You may be interested in learning that there are many, many organizations out there working on this. One of the biggest is Sony. They had an active and fully funded PSI lab until a few years ago. They amassed an abundance of data that has not yet seen the light of day. My guess is that a "soul phone" may indeed be around the corner. I'm involved at this moment with funding efforts....Stay tuned!!

Just a few thoughts as I simply feel that the world is not ready for something of this magnitude. That is however for another philosophical discussion.

I believe we are ready.... Witness the I-Phone, particle accelerators, wireless internet!!! I'm not being flippant. I think we're closer than some may believe. Witness Sony's criptique comments on their own research....They seem to indicate it may be easier than first thought to make contact... Heck, the Vatican itself had no problem with the subject of EVP. I surmise the only folks that might have a big problem might be Atheists!

Thanks for raising some great questions Toby!

Warmly,
John

Good stuff.
Toby

Posted: Mar 12th, 2008 08:40 PM

Slider2732
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A personal statement...it can be imagined the Faraday cage wasn't part of the mix and added as an appeasement of critics. While noone was around they may well have used one, but probably didn't. After all, from Jurgenson onward to the present day, noone uses a Faraday cage while recording for EVP. I think it more likely to be something invested in if the system seemed to work without one. Putting up such a large structure for the equipment size would have been prudent and great for science, but he had to show the thing could receive contact without one first ?
A kind of head game with a benefactor and a catch 22.

Re the billionaires you mention Toby...great point and you'd think that certain flamboyant types may have an interest. Have they been approached ? :wink:

:wink:

Main thing is that most inventions come from garden sheds. When shown to work, in the presence of an investor and when patents are at least applied for, that seems to be the route of financing a commercial product to repay the investor. That's pretty much the possible story with us. But, do we want a product ? and there lies a big question.

The highly personal statements could be phone numbers or that his trouser fly was undone lol. Could be a good few good reasons and will probably always be a problem area.
I totally agree with a list of facts being made. To function as a checklist perhaps. If we get one running and telephone numbers come forward, they would be the type of sounds which would have to be clearly audible in themselves.

Posted: Mar 12th, 2008 08:45 PM

Notemanz
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To your question Slider, Yes these types have and are being approached. Active research is occurring quietly.

As to the "private info" Meek alluded to. Perhaps it was this are there could be other explanations. We may never know in what context the exchange was recorded...

Good points all!!

John D

Posted: Mar 12th, 2008 09:11 PM

TT
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John,

Excellent points. I believe my tendency is to drift into the philosophical sense.

We are the "babies" if you will, in the spiritual sense. In this life we are learning to crawl. In the next walk and so on.

With the knowledge of all the great minds that has passed over to the other side with the infinite wisdom that follows the chain to the top being the creator, why then through the EVPs has the information on how better to communicate not been passed down to us?

I know others have received advice on how to improve hearing the EVPs. I was lucky enough to be the recipient of one EVP that told me a particular setting in Audacity and it worked wonders for me being able to hear better. With knowledge of the programs and equipment we are using why is it not more forthcoming of a schematic or some such?

This is what leads me to believe that they feel we are not ready for a device such as Spiricom. If we were why not just assist us in creating it? They know their own realm better then we do. They have a better understanding of the frequencies and anomalies that hinder us from progressing further.

Better yet, think of the implications for the world if it would be proven. I do not see a utopian society after that. We will obviously still have our debunkers that will not believe ituntil they get to the other side. We have a multitude of religious zealots who would not be accepting of the infidels trickster machines claiming to speak to spirits. Leaving the largest for last, catholics do not believe in communicating with spirits. They believe we are conversing with evil entities and is the work of the devil.

Taking it to an economic stand point. A device is made that does have two-way communication. As Slider said, patents would be held, reverse engineering, minor tweaks and we then have a new race between Sony, Toshiba and Microsoft on who can develop a better Spiricom. Of course all of the costs are passed on to the consumer with this being after they play out a year or two of demand just like personal computers.

Until the next Generation X who never listened to their parents while their parents were living now do not bother listening to them when they pass. A fad for some, a novelty for others and of course the major purchasers are those getting up in age who feel that they need to find their spirituality because their own mortality set in.

Rather cynical I know. Maybe I just have a lower opinion of humanity. Open any newspaper or watch any station and it is all about money. From commercials to ratings to selling news. I still hold firm to the belief that the world is a far cry away from being ready to accept a more spiritual world through communication with the other side.

All of your points are very thought provoking and am enjoying the discussion emmensely. One thing I neglected to say though is when you do succeed please let us be the first to know. ;)

Best,
Toby

Posted: Mar 12th, 2008 10:27 PM

Notemanz
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Understand where you're coming from Toby for sure. We all have our own opinions as to how this work might affect the physical world.

Who knows what ramifications might ensue when a device is perfected. No-one really knows at this point.

One clarification I'd offer re: religious attitude. I'm a Catholic and I work with EVP. In the 50's a priest by the name of Fr. Crenneti stumbled upon an early evp while doing a wire recording. He was perplexed and astonished to hear his father's voice speaking to him.

Make a long story short, this priest brought the recording to the Holy See and ultimately to the Pope. The Pope (Pius the??) examined the data and found himself approving of the the priest's work. It was thought that anything that proves the existence of God was a good thing. It was after all simply proving what the church had said for 2000 years.

As far as talking to spirits....LOL many priests will tell you privately that spirits do indeed exist although the church recommends not listening to them. It makes reference in the New Testament also and advises not to speak to the spirits as they will only try and deceive... (LOL SOmething like that...)

I relate this because I feel there are some mis-conceptions about organized religion and those of the faith. I can't speak for all certainly, but I bet that many poeple of faith would welcome the scientific proof of an after-life. There is official dogma and of course, there is the day to day truth.... I'm not here to defend Catholics but being one, I can assure you the the long tradition of brilliant thinkers; scientists and academicians in the faith is alive and well. Heck did you know that the Big Bang theory was from a Catholic priest named Le Matre? Most priests I know will admit to some acceptance of spirits and the like.

As to your excellent questions... Yes, why don't they just tell us how to do it?? I agree that I wish they would too but perhaps it's we that must find it for ourselves. Much like faith must be reconciled only in the human heart.

I've been pondering the great wealth of brilliance that is not accessible to us on this plane and how very sad this is. Perhaps, as you said so well, we must learn to walk first and our feeble human brain is in-capable of comprehending the true reality of it all.....

Of course they'll always be the "doubting Thomases"... But this won't dissuade us I bet!

You're right...I don't think Utopia is possible here on this plane. But it would be just awesome to speak with Grandma or Grandpa again...

We must dream and not assume... We must embrace the mystery and try to make sense of it all.

Who knows where it will lead us, but, the possibility of cross the veil communication beckons.

Till next thoughts! LOL

John

Posted: Mar 13th, 2008 09:18 AM

Slider2732
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This little discussion is becoming what we probably all need every now and again..thrash out some aims and state some opinions. As a newbie to Spiricom, my input is to get to know such things about fellow posters, as well as get a better understanding of the original pioneers of the initial post. Shame there's no pub and beers going on...thanks all for this great thread.

I often wonder about a couple of things.
How many times do you see a sceptic debunking the heck out of spirit contact and then how often has that person never even sat down with a tape recorder and tried it ?
For the church, if communicating with the deceased is so terrible, what's with praying ? isn't that trying for communication with a spirit being ?
Not wishing to trivialise the whole thing, but from childhood i've imagined the pointing of the hands upward and together in prayer as like forming an aerial.

As luck would have it, the limiter is in place for a bonafide 100% working Spiricom type device. It's the past history of life and experiences. All the charlatans, the false messengers, the ill informed, they all have created a scepticism that real studies may utilise for the good of those who understand the technology. People breaking from the standard methods of tipping the hat toward the creator on a Sunday, may follow a path that finds the device. Perhaps that is its purpose. If ya really wanna know, put these headphones on.
Different religions believe different things. There is one truth and yet every new church or old one has different ways of showing they collectively believe something different.
Garden shed soldering iron wealders are not understood by even the paranormal community at large, so, we have a situation where acceptance would meet many barriers even with tech savvy ghost hunters.
All of this would place a significant road block on device acceptance.
...but...could enable a searching mind, probably in their mid years to give such a device a shot.

I seemed to mis-read your last post John, sorry about that. Sony bosses will want something like they wanted the Walkman. I believe the story is that a boss walked into the R&D department with a cassette case and said he wanted a portable tape player. The engineers asked what kind of design and sizing and the boss put the case on the table ! A few months later something very similar hit the market.
Hmm...the Playstation 4, with 2 player abilities for historical battles, actually playing against the great generals. Featuring a Realm Engine, menu settings for which plane of existence you wish to interact with.
Aside from the fun thoughts, the actual research may have been far more in depth and shown to have resulted in repeatable contact. We don't know that Sony got anywhere, but, as TT implies, the timing may just not be right, Sony might be sitting on the product right now.
I mean, here's something of a thought too, for our Western minds. The Japanese and some consumer life shaping products.
Walkman - Sony
VHS VCR - JVC
Space Invaders - Taito
Pac-man - Namco
Roland TR-909 drum machine (practically ALL 90's and beyond dance music)
Yamaha DX7/Korg M1/Roland D50 (digital keyboard machines to launch the above)
Roland TB-303 (dinky little box that gave anti-social, huge scene, Acid House)

Finally (for now lol), did lots of boffins in Japanese companies search far and wide for inspiration ? No, Pac-Man was inspired by a missing pizza slice and a lot of the Roland music gear came from one guy Tadao Kikumoto. Especially for the music market, the Japanese seemingly understood what we wanted before we did, the same may all apply for spirit contact and noise shaping :blink:

:blink:

.
.
.

What's Steve Jobs phone number ? lol

Posted: Mar 13th, 2008 10:25 AM

Notemanz
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I agree Slider very stimulating!

Why should we care about what anyone else thinks about this work? I for one don't care. For me, it's a personal quest.

One of the points that I was trying to make above is that there seems to be (in some Para-normal circles) a seemingly built in bias against religion and those who have a belief system. I could be wrong, and I apologize if this raise any hackles as i don't mean to.

It's just that I've had a number of people interested in this work, at times, express an opinion that somehow, people of faith won't accept the findings. I've found quite the opposite when discussing this subject with both clergy and those who have a belief system no matter what the faith.

I would say that to me, the work we do here in fact will strengthen and prove that there is an after-life and ultimately perhaps, a creator. For me there is no "battle-field" of concepts there is only truth.

LOL you're right... Whether SOny is just sitting on "the box" or not is a fun thing to ponder. Who knows...

We all share the common goal: to create a working "spiricom". What happens after that, no-one knows. This concern certainly didn't stop others though, and I say we plow ahead and create the device!

I agree this is a great discussion!

Warmest,

John D

Posted: Mar 13th, 2008 11:01 AM

TT
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John,

It is amusing to see however different people of course have different view points. The pastor I spoke with was very open-minded and saw a lot of similarities between the EVPs and praying in general. Talking with members of his congregation though they immediately put up a wall saying that it was not acceptable.

Interesting to say the least that individuals that even share the same beliefs fundamentally still differ on what is an acceptable practice. I strongly believe we will find the same to be true when Spiricom 2 is developed.

I still view us as less then perfect in that some need their egos messaged. See it frequently even in the EVP community. People want the official recognition and monetary gain associated with a great creation.

It is why I feel those on the other side may believe we are not ready for it here yet.

Now the chaos factor is in freewill. However, if those of the upper realms choose not to communicate with us because they do not believe we are ready does that mean those on the earthbound plane would not communicate either? I believe quite the opposite. This presents the relevant question though of what would people experience through their communications with the negative energies?

Is food for thought if nothing else as we can only speculate. Playing devil's advocate of sorts. Pun intended there. =)

My personal feelings are that I believe Spiricom would be a substantial benefit for all of mankind. It will still all revolve around what they feel we should know. After all, being given the results is quite different than experiencing the journey on our own finding them for ourselves.

Slider, unfortunately if the Japanese and Sony do have a model I doubt it would be called Spiricom though, possibly the Buddhacom 3000. That would create quite a stir don't you think? ;)

Great points of discussion to both. I wonder if anyone else has an opinion?

Best,
Toby

Posted: Mar 13th, 2008 08:00 PM

yzzzguy
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Here is a (poorly made) photo of Bill O'Neil standing in front of the Spiricom. This is the best I can provide as I do not have the original. It was projected from a slide onto a projection screen and you can see the brick wall of the auditorium to the right. The videographer did a poor job of centering the screen and focusing. Sorry.

Attached Image (viewed 1799 times):

Posted: Mar 13th, 2008 08:01 PM

yzzzguy
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And here is a still frame from one of the O'Neil/Spiricom videos. Compare this photo with one in the next post.

Attached Image (viewed 1753 times):

Posted: Mar 13th, 2008 08:11 PM

yzzzguy
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This photo of O'Neil using the Spiricom is also a frame grab from a video and can be found on Mark Macy's World ITC web site. Note that the photo is black and white AND taken from a different angle than the frame grab I posted previously. I'm very certain this shows it is from a DIFFERENT VIDEO clip from what I have.

Posted: Mar 13th, 2008 08:27 PM

Slider2732
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I thought the first pic was an ITC capture hehe
LMAO at Bhuddacom 3000 :biggrin:

:biggrin:

Thanks for those pics guys.

Ya know though...game engines could harbour a real shift in mental awareness for a clued up electronics giant like Sony. My wife's daughter just aquired Smash Bros for the Nintendo Wii. Seen the backdrops on that game ? so spiritual in places and so thought provoking. But, what is the game about ? kicking oldy worldy video game opponents to smithereens. It has Zelda and Mario and lots of others, set to different punch up scenarios BUT with breathtaking backgrounds that don't suit the game..in my opinion.
Shaping of young minds, impressionable minds, is an area of huge strategic importance for console manufacturers. Get them thinking a certain way, at a certain age, and those thoughts stay. Personally, I have half a dozen arcade machines in my garage and a building amount of music electronics....cos thems what shaped my mind back in the 80's.
If a company such as Sony can get the 'real deal', a situation O'neill may have found himself deep within, then that shaping can bring a lot of cash.
THAT is a firmly rooted society trick however, the cash incentive and I totally believe that anyone venturing down that route will encounter the 'natural limiter'. If it's God or anyone else who introduces it, I think that's how this would go. My preference of opinion, is for the actualities of understanding to lie with the point of spiritual growth. Money driven folks will never understand the reasonings behind the concepts and therefore would never learn to appreciate the subtleties of spirit communication. To hide a larger understanding is a limiter in spiritual growth.
I can see why Sony shelved research :wink:

:wink:

Posted: Mar 13th, 2008 10:27 PM

Notemanz
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Great pics!

Slider, had a little problem comprehending that last post but one thing I can tell you is that Sony had some success so I wouldn't assume that they shelved the program due to lack of positive results.

Many, many breakthroughs in science have occurred and been encouraged by financial gain. Reference J.P Morgan et al. So I would certainly not discount the financial implications and in fact would think them a great motivator in some circles.

If we are to prove that spiricom was real we must duplicate the results. Here's to that day!

Best,
John D

Posted: Mar 14th, 2008 08:53 AM

Slider2732
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Ah right, I do tend to rattle on!
Well the theme being that comprehension of the spirit interactivity, the gravity of it all, might be lost on formative minds.
While game systems are generally targeted at teens, then inner growth could be seen to be a manipulation by concerned parents or religious figures.

Open research and stating clear aims, is how I believe the current projects can best serve a wider audience. Everyone knows where we're up to and what we're up to. Sony's research is unknown...which is a shame.

Yep, here's to the day ! :biggrin:

:biggrin:

Posted: Mar 16th, 2008 01:21 PM

Keith Clark
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Hello all,

This a very active thread, full of many different ideas and opinions. It will be closely monitored, please continue to communicate in the manner in which you all have been doing so far.

There are several things that I would like to say:

Yzzzguy, you posted the above pictures - and by your own admission you state: "This photo of O'Neil using the Spiricom is also a frame grab from a video and can be found on Mark Macy's World ITC web site."

Please just link to the pictures on other websites - do not reproduce them here. Otherwise, acquire permission from the owner before you do.

John, if you post the video, please post it on Youtube and then link to it here. Given the subject matter, I think that would be best.

Now, I'll throw in my two cents worth :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

1. The fact that Spiricom has not been duplicated does not indicate that it did not happen. If Bacci was the only one to experience two-way radio conversations, would that mean that it was not real because nobody else duplicated it?

2. Personally, I don't think anyone is going to prove or disprove Spiricom. The people that knew best are now on the spirit plane of existence.

3. In the clips provided above I did not hear Mueller tell William to turn the camera off. And even if that had been true, it proves nothing. It only provides for speculation.

4. Deep down, I feel that even if there was a possibility that Spiricom was not real (not my opinion at this time), it would not even matter. Look at the results that have come from it. Look at how many people dive into experiments believing that it is possible. And it is. And it will happen again. If Spiricom turned out to be false, it still led the world towards becoming open to the possibility of direct communication with those in spirit. And that will prove to be just as important.

Keith

Last edited on Mar 16th, 2008 05:53 PM by Keith Clark

Posted: Mar 16th, 2008 05:26 PM

Notemanz
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Understood Keith. If I can post I'll do it through Youtube. On your post of the spiricom recordings' transcript, you'll hear the exchange as I posted between O'Neill and Mueller with Mueller telling O'Neil to "Turn of the D... Camera...."

Meek explains it away that this due to Mueller wanting to impart confidential info to O'Neil.

While yes we can only speculate why, the exchange did seem to occur.

Yes, great thread and hope we can continue to discuss the subject at hand.

Best,
John D

Posted: Mar 16th, 2008 05:51 PM

Keith Clark
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Hi John,

I stand corrected. The .pdf file I posted is searchable, and it only took seconds to find the mentioned excerpt.

Keith

Posted: Mar 16th, 2008 06:53 PM

TT
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I agree John.

Keith I hope we haven't caused any issues with our discussion.

I have enjoyed it emmensely as it has been very thought provoking and many great points and counter-points were given. Unlike quite a few other forums and threads I have read no ego trip statements. Only speculation and theories. Very refreshing to me personally.

Best,
Toby

Posted: Mar 16th, 2008 06:55 PM

Keith Clark
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Nope, we're good so far.

Keith

Posted: Mar 16th, 2008 08:56 PM

Notemanz
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I agree Toby! Refreshing for sure... Thanks for posting the PDF Keith very helpful!

Here's to success!!

John D

Posted: Mar 17th, 2008 11:21 AM

Slider2732
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TT...I hope we HAVE caused some issues, but in a positive light :wink:

:wink:

It's certainly made me think about the research in a new way. From almost passive curiosity to analysis then build ideas.

"If Spiricom turned out to be false, it still led the world towards becoming open to the possibility of direct communication with those in spirit. And that will prove to be just as important."
Yeah, that's how I see it Keith. I note the use of smoke in some of your research and that's been attacked often enough by armchair debunkers. Actually trying things proves a lot to the self and, in your case, some great results were obtained. Manipulations of naturally occurring environmental effects is on the same lines, with tones and waves and other areas of Spiricom. I believe we're shaping the very things that sceptics love to ridicule, while they totally miss the point about natural contact.
Such contact, i'm getting to believing, has happened since man was capable of thought and overly objectionable types merely hamper themselves with closed mindedness.

We might shape and tune for repeatable results, but all the while, it seems to be a case of removing the chance elements of spirit interaction.

Posted: Mar 17th, 2008 04:22 PM

DavidR
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Hi Toby, you might find this web site of some interest where they have made contact via a TV set and cam-corder with images of spirit being shown. http://www.worlditc.org

Regards

David UK

Posted: Mar 17th, 2008 05:32 PM

Notemanz
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Points well stated Keith. I have a question: Do we know of any documentation from other scientists that may have observed the system in use? Anecdotal writings would be of great help here.

I noticed the names of other scientists on the Meta-science advisory board but did any of these chaps review the data or observe the system while fubctioning?

Best,
John D

Posted: Mar 18th, 2008 09:19 AM

TT
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David,

Thank you for posting the world-itc website. I have had it in favorites though for quite sometime. I still find it a valuable source of information and direct people interested in evp-itc there.

Thanks again.
Toby

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ITC Bridge > Instrumental Transcommunication (ITC) > Dedicated SPIRICOM Forum > Great British Program re: Spiricom	Top

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