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Are we moving to forward to qiuck?  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Jan 16th, 2014 01:36 PM
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lance
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Hi all.... I would like to ask the question to those involved in the research of Paranormal, ITC, etc...?    I am hearing alot of about these new phone apps that are on the market to buy, they have become a very popular trend with the paranormal community, people are claiming to be in contact with the spirit world when these apps have not be tried and tested, but people are jumping on board and claiming all sorts of communication??????????

   Is this research moving to fast, without proper research into these new devices.  After all EVP! Has been Tried and tested and researched with in Faraday cages and been put through through tough research over many decades, and still researcher all of the world are reproduced EVP results, but we are all  still researching what the phenomena is, we can 'believe' these voice to be from spirit (As I do) but we can not say for sure???? But these new devices having been on the market for very long and yet people are 'claiming' that they are valid without proper research????  I find this very worrying....

Our research has always had a hard time from skeptics and some scientists, but EVP can still hold it's own (In my opinion) that we are not getting stray radio waves etc, it's been reproduced by people for many decades, the hang up science has got is that we can not perform the phenomena on call. So to back to the question in hand!  I understand we must move forward, but what I am concerned about are we moving to fast in a destructive way?   What your opinion?? Many thanks Lance.

Last edited on Jan 16th, 2014 01:38 PM by lance



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 Posted: Feb 4th, 2014 12:06 PM
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NKiernan
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Hey Lance
                                 People are lazy, and so want instant results.  Why spend days researching with best practices in the attempt to get a valid evp when you can play with a tinker toy like echovox, or play a tape of eastern Europeans backwards and claim the results are paranormal.  The reason I no longer post evp is the battle has been lost. Once evp fell in the hands of your average idiot it was doomed. Ghost Hunter popularized the paranormal and made it a joke. The field is full of Long Island Mediums and tinker toy phone apps.  Its so bad I no longer tell people I'm interested in the paranormal.

                                                                                       Neil

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 Posted: Feb 5th, 2014 05:00 AM
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Keith Clark
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***posts removed here**

Keith

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 Posted: Feb 5th, 2014 06:29 AM
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Keith Clark
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Lance,

I have come to my own personal conclusion that there is only one reason communication with spirit is here - to help us advance our own spiritual development as a race. That is the ultimate goal, to brng about a better world. When the focus became all about "proving to the world", some of the essence was lost. Factions create, competition, and the field is stagnant.

What we need now is to lock hands, continue to positively encourage each other to go with their intuition, to be inspired and inspire, to create, and all with love.

A machine is just a machine, and the heart is more important.

Spirit will only allow developments of significance to come through at a pace slow enough for society to handle it, or it endangers both the final objective and also the experimenters, creators, researchers. The only way is slow. "Slow and steady wins the race"

Keith

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 Posted: Feb 5th, 2014 06:30 AM
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Keith Clark
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Personal experience is the only thing that can change the world.

Keith

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 Posted: Feb 5th, 2014 10:41 AM
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lance
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Hi Both.... What has been going on here????
I see some posts have been removed.


Thanks for the reply's on this thread Neil and Keith...

My goal in this research has always been a personal journey for me, to be a better person and to help others (To help bereavement)
  My view is that I feel these Phone ITC apps are endangering the research, people new to this field are buying them in hope that they can speak to our friends in spirit because it says 'on the packet' they even got a 'ouija Board' on app now?????
Cat Perks made a video of one app on you tube and summed it up after researching the app.
Quote Cat:Sadly this app is nothing more than a toy and not for the serious researcher.
 
This is a quote from Sonia Rinaldi site....

'It has become clear to us that our research must yield reliable evidences for the survival of the Spirit after bodily death. And to yield such evidences our research must be carried out in controlled circumstances so that its results can bear the forces of scientific scrutiny and remain true. We understand that for the ITC phenomenon to be considered valid, it must bear the seal of scientific validation.'


I feel we must still experiment under controlled conditions, ruling out false positives as we go along, but I feel the research is now being 'blind faith' lead by the new generation of 'ghost hunters'  which is worrying to me.   I understand we must move forward, but are these apps the future of ITC??? I hope not.
ITC research needs dedication, I sit in front of my old valve radio listening to white noise in hope of communication from our friends in spirit, but I enjoy it..... But I feel the new generation is, like Neil said, wants a 'quick fix' where we need to build a relationship with Spirit and have a good 'resonance '
Take care, Lance



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 Posted: Feb 5th, 2014 11:04 AM
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Keith Clark
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Think of it in a positive light.

While it may appear that everyone is swayed by TV, there are many of us who know otherwise.

And while it may appear that those useless apps mislead people and have no purpose, they will inspire others to create apps that do have purpose.

True, everyone wants it, and they want it now. That is part of the raising of the consciousness of society, and there's nothing wrong with it.....

what we need to do (I am classifying those of us who understand the "old" methods) is to lead by example and show that spiritual development is first and foremost, and to share how to do it properly to use in combination in communication with spirit. It is inevitable that electronics and machines will help bring us closer to spirit, the dedication that was needed in the past and is currently needed will not be always needed, it will be at their fingertips.

....we will lead by example. Do not be discouraged, be emboldened. For we will blaze the trail that others have started before us.

.....everything has its purpose....even the crappy TV shows. I'd be willing to bet a couple million more people know what evp is, on some base level :)

Warmly,
Keith

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 Posted: Feb 5th, 2014 11:53 AM
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lance
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Onward and upward:biggrin:
Thanks Keith.



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 Posted: Feb 14th, 2014 08:55 PM
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pol
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NKiernan wrote:
Hey Lance
                                 People are lazy, and so want instant results.  Why spend days researching with best practices in the attempt to get a valid evp when you can play with a tinker toy like echovox, or play a tape of eastern Europeans backwards and claim the results are paranormal.  The reason I no longer post evp is the battle has been lost. Once evp fell in the hands of your average idiot it was doomed. Ghost Hunter popularized the paranormal and made it a joke. The field is full of Long Island Mediums and tinker toy phone apps.  Its so bad I no longer tell people I'm interested in the paranormal.

                                                                                       Neil


Meanwhile over in Oz - endlessly amazed how many folks remain clueless re. EVP - even those you'd think were 'worldly wise'. I don't let the external world - whatever else is going on out there, to dictate me!.. my interests & behavior.

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 Posted: Feb 16th, 2014 04:04 PM
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pol
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Aim to get all the world acquainted with spirit reality by year's end.. no disputing will engender a better world - Spirit realm's fundamental aim.

Distribute EVP links here there & everywhere!

Last edited on Feb 16th, 2014 07:54 PM by pol

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 Posted: Feb 17th, 2014 09:30 AM
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Jan
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Lance has an interesting point regarding these phone apps. I doubt they'll reveal any new lines of research (but you never know), but on the other hand will they do any harm? They may even introduce a few inquisitive, sensible people into researching the field.

I know many researchers spend much money, time and effort, and work hard recording EVPs. But in my opinion (and I doubt many here will agree) in at least 50 years' research can anyone point to even one or two really convincing, unambiguous recordings? The EVP recordings I hear currently - although different in method - don't really sound much more convincing than those made decades ago.

The only real breakthrough seemed to be from Spiricom transcomminication in the early 1980s. But when researcher Dr. Rorke found inconsistencies in the Spiricom story and evidence that O’Neil had ventriloquist skills, and owned an electric larynx, I was no longer able to suspend my disbelief.

I've spent two decades working in conventional electronics and communications. I've always had a curiosity in the paranormal, so EVP is an obvious area of interest. But like most engineering, the field is very male-orientated and most men I've worked with had little or no interest in exploring this field. On reflection this attitude isn't unexpected when I consider that after all the thousands of hours my colleagues and I have spent working with radio and/or audio, not one weird, inexplicable signal was ever detected. Was this because we understood the technical limitations of our equipment and external influences that generated these sounds, so had no cause to turn to paranormal explanations?

Unfortunately my own research in my own time usually revealed nothing. Occasionally I found sound artefacts I could understand the origins of, but which could easily have mislead a less technically experienced researcher.

So where are we now with EVP research?

We still have recordings made from various noise sources; from a radio tuned to an empty frequency, water or white noise CDs, etc. (Why not just use the noise from a zener diode, resistor and battery? That won't cost more than a pound/dollar.)

We have the 'Ghost Box' which swishes up and down the radio bands to collect words.

Then there are the backward recoded voices from which people say they can hear relevant words.

Not surprisingly there are some EVPs that are too good to be true. This is always the dilemma of paranormal research. Consider a UFO photo or video. Too good and people shout 'hoax'. Too fuzzy and people say: 'could be anything'. You can't win.

There are some clear EVP recordings out there, mischievously created by individuals who don't appreciate how easy it is to do searches for obscure sounds (and images) on the web and locate the original non-paranormal source.

Nearly all the recordings I've found on various websites come with a handy text suggesting what you should be listening for. REALLY, not helpful!

And there's the elephant in the room - pareidolia.

Sorry to have such a downer on the subject, but I'm getting more and more disillusioned as to whether there is anything to research, given the progress (or lack of) of the past five decades.

Perhaps I'm disillusioned because to get results it's as least as much to do with having the extra qualities of spirituality and mediumship as it is to do with method and equipment. I expect I'm lacking in those extra qualities.

Is there anyone who can reignite my interest...?

Jan

PS: The work Sparks was posting on here last August seemed promising. Any progress?

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 Posted: Feb 17th, 2014 10:41 AM
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NKiernan
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Jan
                                 I posted five evps on youtube for a family member to see. If these don't spark your interest I don't know if anything will. Posted on YouTube as EVP Kiernan.

      http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9X6ZNTb5iqCVQuJrDnzBQ                                                                                     Neil

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 Posted: Feb 17th, 2014 12:15 PM
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pol
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What about a whole host of mine? where you been Jan?
https://soundcloud.com/spiritspeak/tracks

Could virtually have an all day conversation with spirits these days.. responses / chatter all the time!

Respond further to your post late.

Last edited on Feb 17th, 2014 12:17 PM by pol

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 Posted: May 29th, 2014 04:23 AM
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socalfunEVP64
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Wow! How sad. Everytime I go on an investigation, I have successfully communicated with Spirit using any of 3 or 4 methods and normally 2 or more at once, backing each other up. (Spirit Box, Ghost Box, Ovilus, Dowsing Rods, Digital recorders, audible knocks).

As far as the so called 'crappy' Ghost shows. Yeah, they can be corny. The thing is, having built up enough time in listening to EVP and helping Spirits cross over, I can easily pick out EVP from any of these show, or on Youtube videos, etc. I can tell you which EVP's they get wrong (about 80%), etc. The show may be corny, but the evidence is real, whether they can hear it or not. Even their sound man misses most of the EVP but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

How can you possibly be disillusioned with the overwhelming amount of evidence one can collect at any decent Paranormally active location. Nearly any Cemetery has Spirits roaming around willing to communicate, even if many so called 'experts' say Spirits don't hang in Cemeteries.

I've spent an hour in conversation with Spirit getting confirming responses like I said above with my entire team of investigators .

You need to get off your tush and get into the field with me or any competent Investigator.

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 Posted: May 29th, 2014 04:25 AM
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socalfunEVP64
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pol wrote:
What about a whole host of mine? where you been Jan?
https://soundcloud.com/spiritspeak/tracks

Could virtually have an all day conversation with spirits these days.. responses / chatter all the time!

Respond further to your post late.



Exactly! This gal is missing the whole show. I don't get anybody feeling lie she does in our field these days. Spirit is EVERYWHERE, waiting to heard.

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 Posted: Jun 3rd, 2014 03:57 AM
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Jan
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What about a whole host of mine? where you been Jan?
https://soundcloud.com/spiritspeak/tracks"

===

"Exactly! This gal is missing the whole show. I don't get anybody feeling lie she does in our field these days. Spirit is EVERYWHERE, waiting to heard.


Sorry, mostly what I hear are odd noises from a digital source or that have had some digital processing.

Some have real voices with identifiable American accents - mostly right at the end of the clips. Where did they come from? They sound like snatches of AM radio broadcasts.

How were the recordings made?

Thanks.

Janet

Last edited on Jun 3rd, 2014 02:01 PM by Jan

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 Posted: Jun 9th, 2014 10:22 AM
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urkel23
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Well said Toadmund!

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