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My very disturbing messages  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Jan 19th, 2013 11:10 AM
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darrensweet
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Hi, you can certainly hear some if you like, it would have to be by email, and i seriuosly suggest slowing the audio down to half speed. The reason being I used the SB7 spirit box at 100ms reverse, the fastest sweep on there and its fast, and loud. I have lots still i havent gone through, and havent bothered with to be honest.I still have my doubts, because of the detail in the things they have said to me, but since i stopped i have had, as i said earlier, activity happening in my house.But still i'm not ruling out anything. I literally have hundreds of audio files from the past year.If its a trickster, and i seriously hope it is, then its very detailed and very intelligent.The only thing that i have doubts about is this. When i am communicating i have the beeps that accompany the responses from them.Literally it sounds like apparutus they are communicating with, and thats strange.But i am not ruling anything out just yet to be honest.Let me know and i'll send some.Thanks, Darren.

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 Posted: Jan 19th, 2013 03:43 PM
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Hi, I am not going to cease my research into the afterlife, as i have plans to continue later this year in filming at different locations with some friends. At the moment I am pretty sure, with the advice from others here too that i have been communicating with some tricky entities, mainly due to whats happened after i stopped communicating with them, but i still have a little nagging doubt about aliens, as i stated earlier. Without sounding disrespectful in anyway, i have seen enough to convince me the afterlife and other realms exist, i just don't want them hanging around my house playing up so too speak.That is the last thing i want, and if they do, then i obviousley want them gone. So thats where i'll be concentrating on from now on.I have plenty of audio though if anyone wants to listen.Thanks,Darren.

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 Posted: Jan 19th, 2013 04:17 PM
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Hi Rachel, no i'm not nervous in any shape or form, its just the things, this or these entites have been saying during the past couple of months have not been good.The friend i will be filming with is an amazing medium and we have spoken briefly about the information i have been getting, but she hasn't heard any of it yet, although i will be showing her next month when we meet up as she is curious of ITC.The afterlife and research of it, although I now know it exists without any doubt whatsoever, is my passion in life, and I doubt it will ever end.I have some interesting projects regarding filming that i will pursue with the other sides. Thanks Rachel, Darren.

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 Posted: Jan 20th, 2013 07:14 PM
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pol
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Darren,. amazing audibility level with your audio's! - when I get a handle on how to slow recordings down, I'll try playing on radio..depending if they let me ?

Should give rise to some interesting discussions - I like to hear them all .. even the knockers.

Last edited on Jan 20th, 2013 07:22 PM by pol

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 Posted: Jan 20th, 2013 08:33 PM
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Gizmo
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Rachel EVP Voices wrote: Hello folks

I hope you don't mind me playing devils advocate but I was very surprised that in an ITC forum there are members that consider the need for stones to ward off negative spirits/entities. I've read how crystals resonate at unique frequencies that supposedly effect spirits and our ability to link with them. In the many years I've been researching, I've not come across one case of activity that crystals had any measurable affect on, other than as a psychological prop - maybe that's enough of a benefit?

A friend very kindly gave me some crystals that were used in the Scole Experiment, sadly they didn't have any affect when we tried using them. However I'm very sure that my friends testimony of their self illumination in the Scole Hole was genuine. I'm not saying it's all bunk but isn't it better to use your intelligence and common sense, than to rely on an inanimate object to make you feel better?

I've witnessed solid objects being thrown across a room and electrical faults around the house coming and going seemingly at the will of an invisible entity, the only thing that keeps me hooked is how do they do it.

Parapsychology NEEDS current cataloged, illustrated cases of activity for research. If you currently have activity, why not get involved with either the ASPR in America or the SPR in the UK. Both organisations I'm sure, would be glad to read your documented account.

Best wishes, Rachel :smile:

SPR: http://www.spr.ac.uk/main/
ASPR: http://www.aspr.com/
Rachel,  I agree.  I am very skeptical about the whole crystal magic thing.  It's almost like believing in the tooth fairy.  For me, in any case.

However, I'm willing to accept that I don't know what is what with the mechanics of the paranormal. A lot of it simply defies logic and reason.  It's one of the big draws that makes me want to know more.

I too have had quite a few anomalous experiences.  We have had moving objects, disappearing objects, spontaneous fires with a witness to see it ignite for no reason.  We have had electronic craziness too.  So, for some time, we've had a kind of front row seat to things that really defy explanation.  My husband is an Empath, as well.  I have veridical confirmation of events that were precognitive in nature in regard to this ability.  It gets interesting around here sometimes.

My interest has become focused on helping people who find themselves trapped in a situation where they are being tormented by the paranormal. It's not as rare as people think!

My point (sorry for the long reply) is that when people who have been in the thick of extreme activity have put black tourmaline in the room where the activity happens, it stops or slows down vastly. 

One person I know, who is quite intelligent and a strong sensitive as well, tried it out of sheer desperation because her bedroom had turned into a kind of paranormal conduit.  Every night, spirits were sort of streaming through and touching them, wrecking their sleep.  

As I said, she didn't expect much from the stones, but she was ready to try anything.  She reported it worked almost stupidly well immediately.  It also worked in her child's room.  There was something unpleasant in there that actually jumped them when they came through the doorway.  Kid was thrown up against the wall.  Mother was made suddenly ill.  Tourmaline eventually weakened it and cornered it until it just faded and was gone.

Could it be a placebo effect?  Maybe.  Could someone who is constantly aware of energies of spirit be delusional?  Sure.  But I don't believe this is the case here.  I'd bet the farm on it. She is a life long sensitive and something stirred things up in her house this past summer.  She thinks it was a combination drought and remodeling. The drought dried up an underground spring that flows under the house. 

CDS has had similar success with this stone.  So have several other people who have used it.

Who knows? All I'm saying is that if it seems to work, do we care how it works?  I'd say, try it.  Anecdotal is all we have, sometimes, with this field. And if it does no harm, why not give it a go?

 I didn't use to believe in ghosts, either.  LOL

Last edited on Jan 20th, 2013 08:44 PM by Gizmo

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 Posted: Jan 21st, 2013 07:55 AM
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Hi gizmo, it was interesting to read about your friend, where activity happened after the water dried up under her house. Perhaps that was thier energy source, and when that disappeared they ventured inside to extract energy from somewhere else.Thanks, Darren.

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 Posted: Jan 22nd, 2013 05:20 PM
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Curious why protective stones would only work against negative energy & not effect other spirit energy.

Also,. (may be a dumb Q) -when we hear of "spirit possession" it invariably means possession by an "evil" - malevolent entity. Wondering why isn't it possible for other entities -apart from the malevolent, to possess the living ?

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 Posted: Jan 24th, 2013 05:31 PM
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Gizmo
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LOL.  No, Rachel, I didn't mean you don't believe in ghosts! LOL I meant ME.  I used to be a kind of thick-headed type who didn't believe it if I couldn't see it.  I'm not too proud of that. 

As for spirits causing sickness or physical injury, there is some tie to high EMF readings and physical feelings of nausea or panic. (The Fear Cage phenomenon)

 I'm not sure if high EMFs are  causative, or the presence of high EMFs signal the presence of spirits, which cause the physical reactions.

But the injuries...  CDS has some really gruesome pics of what one entity did to his arm.  Yeah, they can hurt you.  I think, when a person is pushed, scratched, or bitten it's a sign that their bodies can be harmed by contact.

We both are moderators on another forum.  We have had quite a few folks reporting injuries.  Typical (and one I'm quite interested in) is the burning scratch.  Often, it is 3 scratches.  Often, it is accompanied by a sound like a growl or a deep laugh- like sound.  Typically, it suddenly burns like heck, then the scratches appear.  Sometimes, they don't heal very fast or well.

I call these the "scratchy-growly" beings.  (not catchy.  I know)  But they don't appear to be human.  They don't appear to be friendly.  (duh) And they seem to associate with very negative situations.

Oh! And my friend who was having her sleep ruined?  She switched sides of the bed with her unbelieving husband.  She was the one who before was getting no sleep.  After switching sides, he was fighting off and on all night IN his sleep and telling whatever to get away.  So, he then had broken sleep.

And the thing is, she and her sister and daughter are sensitives.  As you know, if this is the case, you feel and sense stuff anyway.  She is regularly approached and contacted by dead people, it seems.  She doesn't 'see' them; she senses them.  Her sister 'sees' them.  They are both natural mediums, it appears.

I'm with you on questioning and probing for natural explanations for these things, though.  It's imperative that people don't accept every little bump in the night as some ghost. 

I love looking for pattern in multiple experiences, and using this to build a kind of 'sense' for what happens and what tends to be imagination.



Last edited on Jan 24th, 2013 05:40 PM by Gizmo

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 Posted: Jan 24th, 2013 05:45 PM
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Gizmo
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pol wrote: Curious why protective stones would only work against negative energy & not effect other spirit energy.

Also,. (may be a dumb Q) -when we hear of "spirit possession" it invariably means possession by an "evil" - malevolent entity. Wondering why isn't it possible for other entities -apart from the malevolent, to possess the living ?

A lot of people seem to have attachments, which might not be hideous.  Sort of like hitchhikers or parasites.  How do I ever know this?  I don't.  I'm going on the word of people who do body work, like massage therapy; and also are able to sense this type of stuff.

One person I chatted with, who was an energy worker as well as a therapist, told me she could sense 'chattering monkey-like things," or sometimes little "insect-like things."  She said some attachments felt like snakes.

Take it for what it's worth. 

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 Posted: Jan 25th, 2013 09:20 AM
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I have had some body work done, and the lady who was doing it said it was like pulling 'spider webs' of a dull energy off of me. She had to take a break half the way thru the session, as she was getting drained!
When it was over, I could definitely feel a dramatic change. Over all it was a strange experience.

Another time, I had a husband-wife team do some energy work on me, they described what they shook off their hands was like a sludge! (That didn't sound too appealing to me!) It took them awhile until they 'balanced' me. It really did make a difference. Whether it was some sort of low level entity I was dragging around with me, I'll never know! But it was well worth the effort.

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 Posted: Jan 26th, 2013 06:57 PM
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Gizmo
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Rachel EVP Voices wrote: Hi Gizmo

I had to chuckle, I must be awfully thick headed! I set out with the objective not to go on anybody else's word and believe only what I could experience and validate myself. It's been a decision I have never regretted. By all means consider, listen to and explore other's ideas but don't take them at face value. And I wouldn't expect anybody to do any differently with my research.

Looking for patterns is fine and granted it is enjoyable but pareidolia has a nasty habit of creeping in when your guards not up. Finding meaning in synchronicity is a prime example.

Going back to the subject heading of disturbing messages, I would suggest some recommendations before experimenters worry about a recording;
Unless the recording is a class A, do blind listing tests and ask other people to listen without providing a translation. We all have subjective hearing and it may well be that you've misheard. Keep a diary with the times and dates of all recording sessions and any activity in the environment during or after the session. Asking witnesses to write their own version of events, this will help you understand exactly what did happen. When recording ask for the assistance of a trusted communicator that you have had contact with before. If nothing else, put it all in to perspective. When you stop listening to the recording, the threat is gone. Stop recording and you won't hear anything that upsets you. That really is all you need to remember.

If those experimenting are absolutely certain that their message holds evidence of a threat and are worried then get in touch with a university research unit, there are many psychologists that would like to hear from them.

Best wishes,

Rachel :smile:


Excellent advice.  I will admit to being one who is very skeptical about EVPs.  Most I've listened to many, I have not been able to hear anything close to what people seem to hear.  I might be EVP deaf.  Even Class A ones, I question. because rarely are there any controls in the ones I've heard, and how can anyone be certain that it isn't just voice contamination or radio signal contamination?  I suppose there are good ways to record and examine them.  I'm not qualified to do so, so I tend to set them aside and let others find the meanings there.

But in regard to my "pattern" comment, what I mean is I listen to, read about and see a lot of evidence.  Some, I've experienced myself.  My theory is if many people who don't know each other, and who live in different places and even different times report exactly the same phenomenon in much the same ways, it becomes what I'd call a pattern - an expectation about how certain things tend to look and behave.  Because I don't actively seek gathering evidence myself, I hang back and look at what other people report.  Some of it is surely biased, bogus, or outright hoaxed.  Some is from people who are misinformed or not curious enough to explore natural explanations.

But if you pile it all together and look at the whole picture, it's pretty amazing how similarities pop up with stunning regularity.  Eventually, the picture becomes clearer.

Anyway, stopping the activity cuts off any more messages.  If what was coming through was from some astral thugs, they might become annoyed that they no longer have a platform.  But eventually, if you ignore them, they seem to lose interest and go away.

Last edited on Jan 26th, 2013 07:02 PM by Gizmo

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 Posted: Jan 27th, 2013 11:23 AM
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hank wrote: Perhaps higher standards are needed for the position of moderator.
Thank you for your opinion, Hank.

I'm not a moderator on a strictly EVP site.  We deal with many topics relating to the paranormal. I'm there to moderate the forum.   Do you understand what that means?

My area of focus, I suppose, if I had to center on one, is photography.  I taught  both film and digital photography for quite a long time, and it makes understanding photographic evidence easier - but even there, it can be baffling.  I'm still learning.

I'm HERE  on this forum to discuss the paranormal, and my bafflement about EVPs is genuine in regard to many that I've heard and tried (even with noise cancelling headphones) to decipher.  Or even to be able to hear what others have heard.  I am not good at hearing them.  This in no way indicates that others cannot.  Nor does it indicate they are not valid.  I respect the people like Ron and Chris, and Rachel who uphold standards for collecting and analyzing them.  But I have to say, I've found I am useless at doing this myself. It's frustrating. 

 I still love to hear Class A ones, especially when they pop up under controlled circumstances.  We run into a lot of PSB-7 and spirit box evidence.  We also hear a lot of recordings where the contamination of crunching footsteps, wind, talking of investigators and various other sources of noise make it really hard for me to hear voices. 

As for collecting evidence and doing this type of stuff myself, I'd prefer not to.  When we went this route, we ended up dealing with things in our home that were annoying at best and potentially dangerous at worst.  I am pretty convinced that it might stir things up if I started asking for contact again.  Doesn't mean I'm not still very interested in learning more myself.  Do you feel that learning about this field must be done by doing first hand research?  I do not.  

Thank you for the suggestions, Rachel, for further reading. I WILL look into this.  If it can improve my understanding of how to listen to them; how to sift out the aural pareidolia; and how to determine when I'm hearing a disembodied voice, I'd be thrilled.

Last edited on Jan 27th, 2013 11:33 AM by Gizmo

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 Posted: Jan 27th, 2013 01:38 PM
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hank wrote: That's the "spirit", Gizmo. Glad to see you take yourself so seriously.Well, I try not to take myself too seriously.  But I do take the understanding of these various phenomena seriously.

Because of the current hype and popularity on television of all the paranormal shows, we have a flood of enthusiasts who are racing around trying to capture something...usually with not optimal equipment or technique.  I guess that's where my frustration lies.  I can't embrace the 'evidence' many of them present because it is of poor quality or unknown origin.  Plus, as I said, I really am not very good at hearing EVPs.  I don't know why, either.  My hearing is fine.

I'm pleased to find this site because there seems to be a good standard of approach, and a measured and balanced consideration and analysis of potential evidence with little bias in either direction.

What keeps me going also is looking for explanations as to how these things can happen, and what is behind it.  I'm also quite interested in ways to deflect or stop it when it becomes oppressive.  But, until (and if) anyone ever finds out what the mechanism is, I'm willing to accept that there simply are some things that we can't figure out an explanation for-yet. 

Darren's plight with his disturbing messages, I can accept.  Who made them, how they were made, or what purpose these messages have is unclear.  Also, I would put it out there that the messages themselves leave themselves open for some interpretation, so even their meanings are not cut and dried.  This is certainly the way with so much evidence.  And for a lot of us, there is NO evidence to show for some fairly startling and inexplicable experiences we have had.   That doesn't negate them.

I guess my point is that questioning specific evidence is not the same as questioning that the paranormal exists.  I think it's probably a good thing to keep an open mind, no?

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 Posted: Jan 27th, 2013 04:55 PM
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Rachel EVP Voices wrote: Hi Gizmo, all

I couldn't have put it better myself. I'm utterly frustrated by the amount of air time given to "ghost hunters" with only a superficial understanding and no respect for the subject. If we choose to be taken seriously by scientists and engineers, then we as a community need to be credible.

I fully appreciate that Darren has found messages disturbing but without a comprehensive, objective in-depth investigation, diagnosis through a forum is foolhardy; regardless of previous experience. True physical phenomena is rare and needs to be addressed directly not by Hocus Pocus divination. In a genuine case of activity, there is always a need for sympathetic support alongside a realistic approach to resolving or coming to terms with the situation. Fear has always been considered a key factor to the level of activity and as such it should be treated with sensitivity.

If you glibly pronounce to Joe Bloggs who has reported activity in their home, that they have "attachments" causing the problem without doing any research, because it's what you believe, you will make the situation worse by encouraging negative associations with activity that may not actually exist.

I'm sure you'll all of heard of Guy Lyon Playfair and his book on the Enfield Poltergeist, "This House is Haunted". I was lucky to catch up with him at an SPR meeting where they discussed the report. The family were terrified and the activity caused havoc in their day to day life. If you've seen the TV programme on YouTube, you'll be struck by how all invasive it was. What you don't see on that programme is all of the support the family needed and received, at the time and for a long time after.

Unless you're prepared to put out the fire, don't stoke it!

Best wishes,

Rachel





:smile:
Point taken.  And agreed.  I'm guilty myself of rushing in with suggestions that I've heard have helped with other cases without a clue as to what is happening in a particular case.

When we were having our incidences (Nothing like Enfield, of course!  But some of it was physical.  Some of it was quite disturbing.), there was really no one I knew of, other than my husband, to talk with about it or to offer suggestions.  I had to dig through the mounds of information out there and try to come to an understanding.  My husband was easier with it.  He was pretty certain it would just go away if we didn't encourage it.  Oddly, we never felt fear.  Annoyance?  You bet.

Perhaps this is my own imagination.  Or, it might be false synchronicity.  I'm open to this possibility.  But, after we said, "No more messing with our stuff.  No more disruptions," it did seem to slow down.  This was several years ago.  Now, it's just the occasional slamming noise in the basement, and I did get touched on my back last summer down there.  But compared to before, this is no big deal.  

In dealing with the many folks who come into the other forum and report activity, I guess my first thought is to try to help them debunk it to ease their minds, if we can.  Try to figure out what else it might be before we jump to demonic infestation.  LOL 

But this is different than dismissal.  And sometimes just letting people tell their story helps them feel empowered and not ridiculed or alone.

I feel like I might have stepped off on the wrong foot here, and for this I'm sorry.  It was never my intention to do so.  I will leave the investigating to the ones versed in science and enjoy hearing the resulting evidence they uncover. I hope it leads to a greater general understanding and yes - patterns that help put this puzzle together.

In the meantime, it is at the top of my list to learn to hear and decipher EVPs.  I am convinced that if others can, so can I.  Prior to this, I had to set them aside because I was simply not hearing what everyone else did, no matter how often I tried.  I'm going to see if I can change that.

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 Posted: Jan 29th, 2013 04:44 PM
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Rachel - re. your last sentence .. reminds me of a shrink who at one time asked me "have you been feeling spiritual lately" - if only he knew what I do now!

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