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The LED Spiricom?  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Apr 18th, 2011 12:11 PM
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mikesndbs
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Hi everyone.

Sorry for starting yet another topic but I have the feeling that this one is worthy of its own place here.

A video will follow as soon as its uploaded, it will be unlisted but the link will work.

LED, Solar Panel and audio amp! I'll get it to you as soon as I can.

Please stand by.

Mike.....

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 Posted: Apr 18th, 2011 02:38 PM
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mikesndbs
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Let me know what you think? the video was made very quickly but you get the idea.

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 Posted: Apr 18th, 2011 03:09 PM
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EVPDave
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Nice. I'm surprised you have so much distortion with the optical link. I did some tests in 2007 using a very simple optical link and EVP maker that were pretty clear.
http://www.itcbridge.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=226&forum_id=5&highlight=optical+link


 I then went from there to build what I called at the time an "Optical Spiricom" in 2008.  The page is short, it might give you some ideas.

http://www.itcbridge.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=447&forum_id=30&highlight=optical+spiricom

Keep going,

Dave

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 Posted: Apr 18th, 2011 05:45 PM
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Bravo Paranormal
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Nice I was about to do something similar of sorts. I am about to experiment with 2 recorders an ir led and an ir receiver. Out the headphone jack with the IR led playing spiricom. And the other recording through mic input with IR receiver. Seems to be the same basic idea. Ah off to radio shack again lol. But I really like your setup that you have going here. Cant wait to hear results.

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 Posted: Apr 18th, 2011 07:26 PM
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ArizonaEvp
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Great Effort Mike,

I too would be anxious to hear your tone test.

My wife and I are rock / mineral collectors and your IR LEDs reminded me that Ultraviolet (UV) LEDs are on the market.

It might be another avenue of exploration with your setup.



Keep Up The Good Work,
Ron



UV LED Below:






Attached Image (viewed 581 times):

UV_LED.jpg

Last edited on Apr 19th, 2011 04:35 AM by ArizonaEvp

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 Posted: Apr 18th, 2011 09:24 PM
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mikesndbs
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Thanks Dave

Yes the distortion is odd, I don't really understand it as yet.

I have tried a photo transistor and photo diode and both produce the same effect.

What is clear is that this is very sensitive!

I need to swap out the large LED cluster, maybe trying some other colours?

Then look at the recorder side of things.

Thanks for the encouragement.

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 Posted: Apr 18th, 2011 09:25 PM
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mikesndbs
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Thanks everyone for the nice comments, I want to get on with this but a very busy period at work is getting in the way.
I'll report back asap.

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 Posted: Apr 19th, 2011 04:49 AM
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ArizonaEvp
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mikesndbs wrote: Thanks Dave

Yes the distortion is odd, I don't really understand it as yet.

I have tried a photo transistor and photo diode and both produce the same effect.

What is clear is that this is very sensitive!

I need to swap out the large LED cluster, maybe trying some other colours?

Then look at the recorder side of things.

Thanks for the encouragement.


Hi Dave,

Your distortion could be in your amp.  You could hook up a regular speaker to see if you get distortion.

Not that you need this but your mention of using different colors prompted me to throw up this chart for the benefit of others.

It gave me an idea or two........


Ron





Attached Image (viewed 676 times):

spectrum.gif

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 Posted: Apr 19th, 2011 04:56 AM
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ArizonaEvp
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On one side of the spectrum I thought you might make use of Radar.

As in a radar gun - sports speed gun.  That uses a very narrow beam.

On the other-side of the spectrum....there is the UV LEDs mentioned above.

Laser microphones have been around for a while.  Seen lots of video on youtube about them.



Ron

Last edited on Apr 19th, 2011 05:12 AM by ArizonaEvp

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 Posted: Apr 19th, 2011 05:38 AM
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mikesndbs
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Hi Ron and thanks.

 

We must have been thinking along similar lines.

I have just rushed through a number of tests.

OK, when I connect a speaker up the output is clear and fine.

I tried dropping the value of the resistor to 12 Ohms as the amp works between 4 and 16.

I tried red, green and yellow LEDs and I also tried a 2.2v torch bulb.

 

The distortion was about the same for all.

The best performance was from the BPX65 Silicon PIN Photodiode but only if I cupped my hand around it making a tunnel.

This put me in mind of a Opto isolator!

Lots more to try, laser microphones sound interesting as do the UV diodes.

But, is there any evidence for the vibration that spirit can best work with?

I had assumed IR.

Cheers

 

Mike

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 Posted: Apr 19th, 2011 10:51 AM
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mikesndbs
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Hi just before bed!

I think it must be the amplifier not being able to work with the LED or maybe being too powerful?
The distortion is a real pain and its getting me down.
But, its proved a system so I can try to work on that.
Any ideas?

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 Posted: Apr 19th, 2011 11:06 AM
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ArizonaEvp
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mikesndbs wrote: Hi just before bed!

I think it must be the amplifier not being able to work with the LED or maybe being too powerful?
The distortion is a real pain and its getting me down.
But, its proved a system so I can try to work on that.
Any ideas?

WAKE UP!!!!,  :biggrin:   It only 11am where I'm at.


If you look at the link for the amp's data-sheet you can see a variation that uses a 10K potentiometer.   (first page - lower left)


That should give you the fine tuning you need to overcome the distortion.



http://www.kemo-electronic.de/datasheets/m033.pdf




Goodnight,
Ron

Last edited on Apr 19th, 2011 11:12 AM by ArizonaEvp

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 Posted: Apr 19th, 2011 12:37 PM
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EVPDave
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mikesndbs wrote: Hi just before bed!

I think it must be the amplifier not being able to work with the LED or maybe being too powerful?
The distortion is a real pain and its getting me down.
But, its proved a system so I can try to work on that.
Any ideas?


You can overcome the distortion by using a simple 1:1 transformer. Amp output feeds one side and LED's are DC biased on the other, very simple. You shouldn't need much amplifier power using this method.

Dave

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 Posted: Apr 20th, 2011 06:36 AM
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mikesndbs
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Thanks guys, I'll try the transformer and the pot

Mike

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 Posted: Apr 20th, 2011 08:14 AM
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EVPDave
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mikesndbs wrote:
....Lots more to try, laser microphones sound interesting as do the UV diodes.

But, is there any evidence for the vibration that spirit can best work with?

I had assumed IR.

Cheers

 

Mike


If you study the designs of Hans Otto Koenig he had very good documented results using IR and UV light.

http://www.worlditc.org/c_04_s_bridge_19.htm

 

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 Posted: Apr 20th, 2011 08:26 AM
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mikesndbs
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Noted re IR.
I find the only transformer I have here is a audio high-low match.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Eagle-LT700-Radio-Output-Audio-Matching-Transformer-/160462511325?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item255c4f9cdd

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 Posted: Apr 20th, 2011 08:42 AM
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EVPDave
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mikesndbs wrote: Noted re IR.
I find the only transformer I have here is a audio high-low match.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Eagle-LT700-Radio-Output-Audio-Matching-Transformer-/160462511325?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item255c4f9cdd

I see the xfmr is rated at 200mw, that is plenty for such tests. The output side (3 ohms) would connect to the amp output to maintain the impedence. You may wish to reconsider using such a high power amplifier as it is not needed. 

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 Posted: Apr 20th, 2011 09:19 AM
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mikesndbs
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Hi Dave, yep understood I added a 12R in the low side to protect the amp.
And the 10K pot.
Better but still lots of distortion.
I might try direct out of the source, into the transformer and then a LED.
The big panel seems to have too much output even at low levels as well.
Test and more tests.

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 Posted: Apr 20th, 2011 01:33 PM
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clockdryve
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Ron, do you have a good suggestion for a Dual/Frequency UV light source (portable) for rock collecting?
I've been looking around for the last few years (not to heavily) for a decent light...(around $250 max). I want to try a new hobby?

Always interested in rocks :) Still at my age of 48 you might see a rock come out of my pocket when I pull out some change at the gas station. LOL

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 Posted: Apr 21st, 2011 06:12 AM
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ArizonaEvp
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clockdryve wrote: Ron, do you have a good suggestion for a Dual/Frequency UV light source (portable) for rock collecting?
I've been looking around for the last few years (not to heavily) for a decent light...(around $250 max). I want to try a new hobby?

Always interested in rocks :) Still at my age of 48 you might see a rock come out of my pocket when I pull out some change at the gas station. LOL


I sent you a PM with the info.


You should see my wife and grand daughter.  They go for a walk and come back with all their pockets full of rocks.  It's a good thing I live on an acre of land.  :)



Ron




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 Posted: Apr 21st, 2011 08:09 AM
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mikesndbs
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Right, got a few days off now, time for some research and to bring my current tests to a conclusion of some kind.
The issue I have is that I now have ideas for a number of trails which is getting me confused.
One at a time LOL, first off has to be the distortion issue.

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 Posted: Apr 21st, 2011 08:58 AM
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ArizonaEvp
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mikesndbs wrote: Right, got a few days off now, time for some research and to bring my current tests to a conclusion of some kind.
The issue I have is that I now have ideas for a number of trails which is getting me confused.
One at a time LOL, first off has to be the distortion issue.



Ya know Mike,


As long as its easy to hook your stuff up,  you might as well do a test with the spiricom tones.   This way you'll have a comparison.

Never know.....the "fuzz" effect of the distortion might lightly smooth out the harshness of the tones.



Stranger things have happened,
Ron




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 Posted: Apr 21st, 2011 09:59 AM
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mikesndbs
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Could be right there Ron!

 

I am planning to try it out tonight when its dark so I can have the LED about 3mtrs from the panel and will give it a try.

Have to say the IR and 37.MHz loop look very interesting but very complex.

Need to follow that up a bit.

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 Posted: Apr 21st, 2011 01:20 PM
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mikesndbs
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Test results:

With the solar panel and LED cluster around 3 meters apart I found the distortion was a lot less.
It seems to be due to the LEDs no faithfully passing the information until they are around 80% brightness.
No EVP but my mood was poor due to fatigue and I felt nervous for some reason.

I really need to know what sound source to use?
Spiricom sounds wrong to me, a mix of white and brown noise was better.
Any thoughts?

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 Posted: Apr 21st, 2011 03:08 PM
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EVPDave
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I never had any luck with the documented Spiricom tones, as you said they do not sound right. What I did discover is a program called audio mulch. A demo version is free to use for 30 days. I used the 10 harmonic mixer with a base frequency of 102hz in my early optical Spiricom experiments. The sound is much closer to what is heard on Spiricom recordings.

I'm attaching a screen shot of the software in operation. The adjustment of the 10 harmonic levels is critical. I found optimum adjustment is by trying to make as flat a line as possible in the waveform monitor box. This is not as easy as it sounds, the adjustments interact with one another.

Attached Image (viewed 747 times):

audiomulch2.jpg

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 Posted: Apr 22nd, 2011 05:21 AM
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mikesndbs
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Thanks Dave, I spent some time working on a source last night so going to try that for a bit then grab that software :-)

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 Posted: Apr 22nd, 2011 05:30 AM
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mikesndbs
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Just ran a test, darkened room during daylight.

Panel seems unaffected by ambient light!

Ran custom source file from one laptop, recorded to the other.

The result:

http://www.box.net/shared/t7q334fdem

I have applied a wide brick wall filter to this and that is all.

Not sure, there is still a deal of distortion but it kind of sounds promising.

Thoughts and opinions please?

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 Posted: Apr 22nd, 2011 06:20 AM
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Keith Clark
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Hi, I just wanted to pop in and say that I found this experiment very cool, definitely leaning more towards creative experimenting. Since your aim is to emulate Spirixom principles by using transmit, receive methods I am going to go ahead and move this thread to that forum/topic. I'd be interested in hearing what results could be obtained with tones over as long period of time (leaving equipment on for long term). Sorry for brevity, am writing this from my Droid phone!
Keith

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 Posted: Apr 22nd, 2011 09:24 AM
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mikesndbs
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For those following this, here is the source sound direct.
http://www.box.net/shared/d3zh0cbl36

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 Posted: Apr 25th, 2011 08:23 AM
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mikesndbs
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Currently testing with white noise, getting a clean transfer! am on skype now, user name [email protected]

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 Posted: Apr 25th, 2011 09:05 AM
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mikesndbs
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Monday's test results.

 

Hi, had to close down after around an hour of testing as I find this makes me very tired indeed??

Anyway, I have concluded that white noise is the best sound to send through the LED cluster.

It does not get distorted which I think is due to the LED working at peak performance all the time.

Here is the set up used today:



Close up of the LED cluster:

 



 

And here is a link to the recorded output via DC7 Live.

http://www.box.net/shared/qny6q4ac75

 

More work needed I guess!

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 Posted: May 14th, 2011 01:30 AM
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mikesndbs
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Hi, I re visited the LED Spiricom yesterday as I wanted to try something.

 

I included a feedback loop.

Basically I set up as before with the main PC running DC Live, took the feed to one of my speakers to a FM transmitter (the kind used for playing your iPod via the car radio)

I then used a small FM radio back at the LED's Laptop, plugged this into the mic socket and balanced the audio with the white noise source it was providing.

The result was interesting but I found it increased distortion a fair bit, also one had to be careful otherwise the feedback built up on its own to a overload.

It was also possible to stop sending the audio source and the LED still carried on just transferring its own output back to itself :-)

 

My reason for trying this was because of my interesting results with the video ITC loop, I pondered was a feedback loop required for ITC?

Not sure I've answered this and I have a number of tests to carry out yet but the LED Spiricom is far from dead!

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